Cheating in chess

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Mick Norris
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Re: re: Cheating in chess

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:08 pm

Paul Bloom wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:38 am
On the matter of the 4NCL my team who are in DIV 6 played their 4th round match last night we are not doing great but out graded most matchs and half way in table so well done to the lads . but feel really sorry for the BD1 last night was white so issued the challenge of a 45 min plus 15 secs game to his opponent who accepted the challenge and they continued to play a 40 move almost 2 hour match which he managed to win giving our team a 2 1/2 to 1 1/2 victory only to be told the game was void as he had forgotten to click rated and the game was played in casual mode .
He not only lost the win but both teams were deducted an extra half point leaving the scores at 1 each . My point is this is not stated any where in the 4NCL online rules and my understanding is that it is because anti cheating software cannot be run during an unrated game . but as the game can be viewed afterwards and run through a PGN and checked . Does anyone think this is a bit harsh on the players we just play this event for fun no prizes involved . just for the record I have run the game through and the winner made 3 inaccuracies 3 mistakes and 2 Blunders and his opponent 5 inaccuracies 4 mistakes and 3 blunders so doesn't look like anyone cheated here . your thoughts please given the fact that no where in the 4NCL rules is thu=is covered to say the game must rated or will be voided
Hi Paul, your captain was emailed by Alex H on 22 September as follows:
Can I make one more impassioned plea for you to get your players to start their games in "Rated" mode, and not "Casual"? The user guide does impress the need for this to happen.

In our judgement, looking at the data from season 1, more often than not it is the people who have been on our "watchlist" of people who might be using engine assistance. Given that this season, we require both Lichess and 4NCL to independently corroborate a fair play violation for a sanction, playing the game as casual means it turns off the anti-cheating check, and it may result in you being unhappy if Lichess can't corroborate for that reason.

So please drill the message into your players that challenges must be made as "rated", and not casual, and as captain make a point of checking that your players have done this correctly at the start of the game and getting such games restarted.

As a result of this, games played as casual will be scored 0d-0d from Round 3 onwards.

We should have been doing this anyway, but we have been lenient while you were getting back into the swing of things for season 2.

It's not easy for the three arbiters to check 440 games manually ourselves, so we do recommend that captains spend a few minutes at the start to check their players have done it correctly. There are normally only a handful of cases each week. Arbiters may send your players messages if we observe this, so make sure your players see them pop up in the top-right corner of the screen.

We're available by email or in the WhatsApp group if you need help or have a problem!
As a result of this, games played as casual will be scored 0d-0d from Round 3 onwards was in Bold in the email to emphasise this, so your board 1 should have known
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Paul Bloom
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul Bloom » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:28 pm

I accept the captain was emailed however this email was not passed on the the players . Unfortunately the player involved last night was not actually contactable as he has been abroad for sometime and we have only been contacting by facebook messenger to give team updates . last night both players were messaged via the online chat our player had his chat disabled and their player seemed to be happy to ignore the message as he was losing the game and happy to have it voided . I would also say this error was not noticed by the online arbiters or anyone else until the game was well into the middle game . My point is that under the rules both players are at fault for challenging under casual and the other player for accepting it . but only one player is being penalised{the winning one} the other player in fact gains by the game being declared void . this seems very harsh on one player. would it not be much fairer just to replay the game under rated given that pairings for the next rd in div 6 are not done for other 10 days

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:40 pm

Paul Bloom wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:28 pm
last night both players were messaged via the online chat our player had his chat disabled and their player seemed to be happy to ignore the message as he was losing the game and happy to have it voided .
Why are players not required to have online chat disabled as an anti-cheating measure? In OTB chess, it wouldn't be allowed to attempt to talk to a player whilst they were sat at the board.

Paul Bloom
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul Bloom » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:48 pm

I am only guessing but any online chat would be visible to all and on lichess would remain visible to anyone going back to view the game . . both captains and the arbiter was trying to contact them via online chat yesterday

Paul Bloom
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul Bloom » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:55 pm

Also this rule that is not in the written rules for 4NCL online was only changed after Rd2 had been completed . I did not think you could change the rules of a tournament once it had started . so anyone that had committed this offence in rounds 1 and 2 got away with and their pts intact . anyone round 3 onwards got their game voided and pts deducted from their team . this cannot be right mid comp . not sure how many it affected in rds 1 or 2 but must have been a few to prompt the email . This has now had an effect on the pairings for later rds as teams kept their pts under the old rule To me its like saying we will have a 6 rd congress and play 35 moves in 90 mins then 2o mins quick play finish and then after rd 2 change to fisher timings cant be done mid tournament surely .

Mick Norris
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:07 pm

Paul Bloom wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:28 pm
I accept the captain was emailed however this email was not passed on the the players
Your captain had 2 weeks to pass it on, Paul, that seems long enough to me
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Mick Norris
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Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:09 pm

Paul Bloom wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:55 pm
Also this rule that is not in the written rules for 4NCL online was only changed after Rd2 had been completed . I did not think you could change the rules of a tournament once it had started . so anyone that had committed this offence in rounds 1 and 2 got away with and their pts intact . anyone round 3 onwards got their game voided and pts deducted from their team . this cannot be right mid comp . not sure how many it affected in rds 1 or 2 but must have been a few to prompt the email . This has now had an effect on the pairings for later rds as teams kept their pts under the old rule To me its like saying we will have a 6 rd congress and play 35 moves in 90 mins then 2o mins quick play finish and then after rd 2 change to fisher timings cant be done mid tournament surely .
No, it's a request to actually comply with the regulations

Guide to playing games on Lichess from the 4NCL website
Making the challenge a “Rated” game is an important part of the challenge process; a
game played in “Casual” will turn off the Lichess Anti-Cheating measures. Players should
issue challenges that are “Rated”, and we would like players who receive challenges as
Casual to decline them, and if necessary send a message to your opponent explaining why
the challenge was declined and asking to re-issue it as rated.
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Adam Raoof » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:50 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:48 pm
Do Lichess explain allegations and results of cheating. I am interested in domestic chess on-line as hoping to set up a league.
Lichess, chessdotcom, chesskid, icc, do not. The platform Tornelo does make it possible for arbiters to monitor fair play round by round and explain the results to players.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Tornelo - https://tornelo.com/chess/orgs/chess-england
Simon Williams "The Ginger GM" - https://gingergm.com/ref/106.html
Don’t stop playing chess!

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:06 pm

The only thing you do get from lichess and chess.com is a popup saying that an opponent has been punished for cheating and rating points refunded (I generally find I get 4-5 of these a week...)
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Richard Bates
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Richard Bates » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:38 am

Joey Stewart wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:06 pm
The only thing you do get from lichess and chess.com is a popup saying that an opponent has been punished for cheating and rating points refunded (I generally find I get 4-5 of these a week...)
4-5 a week? How many games do you play? I think I've had maybe 1-2 in 6 months! (over 700 games). Although maybe i've missed them, but seems unlikely - is there anywhere you can see messages retrospectively (on lichess)

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:12 pm

I play perhaps 100-200 games a week, mostly 3 min blitz tournaments where you would think it was safe from cheating given the short time but plenty of the dirty scumbags still give it a try.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:42 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:12 pm
you would think it was safe from cheating given the short time but plenty of the dirty scumbags still give it a try.
Whilst I've never had the desire to try one out, I thought you could get browser plugins which will show you the computer's best move on the board you're playing on, so they're usable at any time limit. I'd expect you to be able to just press a key to tell the computer to play the recommended move without you having to move the piece yourself, so you'd be able to move very quickly.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:07 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:42 pm
Whilst I've never had the desire to try one out, I thought you could get browser plugins which will show you the computer's best move on the board you're playing on, so they're usable at any time limit.
Is it plausible that lichess, chess.com and others have developed software that can detect the presence and use of such add-ons?

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:38 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:07 pm
Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:42 pm
Whilst I've never had the desire to try one out, I thought you could get browser plugins which will show you the computer's best move on the board you're playing on, so they're usable at any time limit.
Is it plausible that lichess, chess.com and others have developed software that can detect the presence and use of such add-ons?
Not trivially, no. It isn't like computer games where they can (and do!) install very intrusive anti cheat programs. The browser interface is a huge restriction.

Probably also for the cheat programs mind you.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:38 pm

Sutovsky on Twitter wrote:
GM Arturs Neiksans wrote:The memorial of my first chess coach Vsevolods Dudzinskis, organized in the small bordertown Valka (where I was born), unfortunately started with an incident. Just in round 3 I noticed that in the tournament icognito is playing the notorious Igors Rausis, who has been banned by FIDE to play in tournaments for 6 years! He was wearing a mask and playing on the lower boards with a name of Isa Kassimi thus I did not even notice him.

When I confronted Rausis, what is he doing here, violating the ban, he showed me a new ID with the new name. That made several participants immediately furious, and his round 3 opponent declined to play against him. But what happened next, really shocked me. The tournament organizer, unclear how to solve the incident, decided to call one of the main arbiters in Latvia, for an advice. And the advice from the nation wide recognized arbiter was - it is legal for Rausis to play! I immediately protested that allowing Rausis to continue to play taints the memory of my coach. The tournament director kindly asked Rausis to leave the tournament, and he luckily complied without further incident.

I wonder what FIDE would have to say in this matter?
To everyone making a fuss of Rausis playing under different ID: This was NOT a FIDE-rated event. So, technically we can not forbid him play in some private, non-rated event. However, I'd expect the organizers of such tournaments to treat it according to the spirit of a decision.
I've come to terms with people in other countries being able to play chess while I cannot. But Rausis, good grief!

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