Cheating in chess

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:51 am

I was also thinking of, say, if you're playing and you fancy looking at other pages while waiting for your opponent to reply.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Mick Norris
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:51 am

I hope not Roger; the ECF told us that for the online County Championships, we were ok to have the ECF LMS open to check the ongoing score, whilst playing on chess.com, although they did say no other windows open
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:04 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:51 am
I hope not Roger; the ECF told us that for the online County Championships, we were ok to have the ECF LMS open to check the ongoing score, whilst playing on chess.com, although they did say no other windows open
Thanks, Mick, that's interesting. However, if it means that the mere act of having other windows open - as might happen, as Justin suggests, while waiting for an opponent to reply - runs extra risk of being flagged as a 'cheat', that strikes me as another reason for concern.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:21 pm

The providers have a pretty good idea of whether you are losing focus to see the football results, check E-mails or cheat. It isn't rocket science, nor is it infallible, but it is based on a vast level of experience and it is very good.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:37 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:21 pm
The providers have a pretty good idea of whether you are losing focus to see the football results, check E-mails or cheat. It isn't rocket science, nor is it infallible, but it is based on a vast level of experience and it is very good.


Why isn't that a definition of spyware? In other words how does a website know through a browser connection that you have started an email client? Why should a website be able to find out what other websites were simultaneously open?

If you can look at games in the same match, is that in real time and is analysis or assessment displayed?

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:46 pm

Roger De Coverly wrote "Why isn't that a definition of spyware?"

Matthew Turner wrote "It isn't rocket science"

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:59 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:21 pm
but it is based on a vast level of experience and it is very good.
How do we know this
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:15 pm

The problem being that the rules of the competition in which he was playing allowed the consultation of books during play.

What chess.com appear to have detected was that the analysis in the books had been created with engine assistance.
Last edited by Carl Hibbard on Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: A quiet life edit.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:31 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:21 pm
The providers have a pretty good idea of whether you are losing focus to see the football results, check E-mails or cheat. It isn't rocket science, nor is it infallible, but it is based on a vast level of experience and it is very good.
Matt - Are suggesting that, if I open another window to look at another game, the program can distinguish between whether that game is [1] one being played by a team-mate, which I'm watching out of legitimate interest or [2] a recent grandmaster game where the same line was played and I'm looking, illegitimately, for assistance?

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:36 pm

Removed because the post to which it referred was removed.
Last edited by NickFaulks on Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:44 pm

A post was removed in order for me to live a quieter life.
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:04 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:44 pm
A post was removed in order for me to live a quieter life.
Carl, I assumed you must have renounced all thought of a quieter life when you started this forum.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:05 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:04 pm
Carl Hibbard wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:44 pm
A post was removed in order for me to live a quieter life.
Carl, I assumed you must have renounced all thought of a quieter life when you started this forum.
It seems to be getting to that stage :roll:
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Mick Norris
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:53 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:04 pm
Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:51 am
I hope not Roger; the ECF told us that for the online County Championships, we were ok to have the ECF LMS open to check the ongoing score, whilst playing on chess.com, although they did say no other windows open
Thanks, Mick, that's interesting. However, if it means that the mere act of having other windows open - as might happen, as Justin suggests, while waiting for an opponent to reply - runs extra risk of being flagged as a 'cheat', that strikes me as another reason for concern.
If we get banned in an ECF competition for following ECF advice, we'll be upset; however, the ECF have no control over chess.com

The MCCU have decided to use Lichess, but the instructions are similar, and the MCCU have no control over Lichess
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul Cooksey » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:13 pm

Justin's point about how sure we can be that someone banned was cheating is important. But if you believe there are at least some cases where cheating is proven, I think it is a bit problematic that the chess sites are toothless against free anonymous users, who can simply create a new account.

The Guardian article shows chess.com banning 15000 accounts a month. But they might be the same 15000 users they banned last month too. Maybe even the same 1000 users creating 15 accounts a month.

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