Cheating in chess

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:11 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:44 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:33 pm
I'm not sure there's anything much to see there, is there? I might very well take ten seconds to play 29 Qe3 for instance.
The time control is 9 minutes with an 8 second increment
Yeah but I habitually play 7 minutes plus 5 seconds and you'd be amazed how many of my opponents manage to have more than their original seven minutes left at the end.

(I'm genuinely not sure what you're driving at here.)
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:42 pm

Justin,
You presented a game and said that it looked 'real' to you. I am just pointing out that there is a lot of information contained within one game and there are a lot of things to consider.
Lichess have a huge amount of experience about what 'real' and 'cheating' looks like in terms of these metrics.
I'll leave it at that.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:49 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:42 pm
Lichess have a huge amount of experience about what 'real' and 'cheating' looks like in terms of these metrics.
Yes but so what? If we have no idea what assumptions are being applied, nor about the quality of those assumptions, then we have no metrics ourselves by which to judge their accuracy.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:54 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:42 pm
Justin,
You presented a game and said that it looked 'real' to you. I am just pointing out that there is a lot of information contained within one game and there are a lot of things to consider.
Lichess have a huge amount of experience about what 'real' and 'cheating' looks like in terms of these metrics.
I'll leave it at that.
I'm genuinely not sure about that. They have a truly vast amount of data, yes.

That's only really any use for developing screening techniques if they've got a big subset of their data labelled with cheaters/non cheaters. I'm distinctly unsure where they might have got that, and would be very sceptical of its quality.

The statistical methods can obviously use over the board chess to characterise non engine assisted play.

Wadih Khoury
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Wadih Khoury » Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:49 am

The final stage of the world online cadet/junior will require 2 cameras (the second one with broader angle showing the player and his surroundings)
http://world2020.ge/uploads/Instructions.pdf

Joseph Conlon
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joseph Conlon » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:44 pm

On this ever-continuing topic, one thing I noted with surprise today is that on chess.com it appears perfectly possible to watch games with a live report courtesy of chess.com of the stockfish evaluation and preferred moves (through my son having finished a game and spectating on other games in progress in the British U8 qualifiers).

This may come as no news to many but I normally play on lichess which as far as I can tell will not allow analyses of games in progress.

Wadih Khoury
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Wadih Khoury » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:22 am

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:44 pm
On this ever-continuing topic, one thing I noted with surprise today is that on chess.com it appears perfectly possible to watch games with a live report courtesy of chess.com of the stockfish evaluation and preferred moves (through my son having finished a game and spectating on other games in progress in the British U8 qualifiers).

This may come as no news to many but I normally play on lichess which as far as I can tell will not allow analyses of games in progress.
Isn't that limited to players in the tournament though?
Unlike lichess, I didn't found a way to spectate a game (maybe due to child protection?)

Joseph Conlon
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joseph Conlon » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:37 am

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:22 am
Isn't that limited to players in the tournament though?
Unlike lichess, I didn't found a way to spectate a game (maybe due to child protection?)
I don't know; for obvious reasons I'm not trying to experiment on this.

I did check with spectating on the top-rated game on the site (some random GM) and there the live evaluation and stockfish preferred moves come up.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:27 pm

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:37 am
I don't know; for obvious reasons I'm not trying to experiment on this.
If servers broadcast real time analysis of games in progress which are being played under insecure conditions, are they not assisting potential cheats? They could presumably pick up multiple connections from the same ISP address, but there are obvious means to circumvent this, as well as being potential false accusations where the spectators, say in a hotel or hall of residence, are not in touch with the player.

It's even happened intermittently in OTB tournaments where spectators watching the games broadcast from DGT boards have tried to relay information back to the players.

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:38 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:27 pm
Joseph Conlon wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:37 am
I don't know; for obvious reasons I'm not trying to experiment on this.
If servers broadcast real time analysis of games in progress which are being played under insecure conditions, are they not assisting potential cheats? They could presumably pick up multiple connections from the same ISP address, but there are obvious means to circumvent this, as well as being potential false accusations where the spectators, say in a hotel or hall of residence, are not in touch with the player.

It's even happened intermittently in OTB tournaments where spectators watching the games broadcast from DGT boards have tried to relay information back to the players.
Before I bog this up tomorrow morning, at the British online is it permissible to follow a child's game on a different computer from a different chess.com account in the same house?

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Paul Robert Jackson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul Robert Jackson » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:43 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:38 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:27 pm
Joseph Conlon wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:37 am
I don't know; for obvious reasons I'm not trying to experiment on this.
If servers broadcast real time analysis of games in progress which are being played under insecure conditions, are they not assisting potential cheats? They could presumably pick up multiple connections from the same ISP address, but there are obvious means to circumvent this, as well as being potential false accusations where the spectators, say in a hotel or hall of residence, are not in touch with the player.

It's even happened intermittently in OTB tournaments where spectators watching the games broadcast from DGT boards have tried to relay information back to the players.
Before I bog this up tomorrow morning, at the British online is it permissible to follow a child's game on a different computer from a different chess.com account in the same house?
Matt, I very much doubt it.
Paul Robert Jackson

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:43 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:38 pm
Before I bog this up tomorrow morning, at the British online is it permissible to follow a child's game on a different computer from a different chess.com account in the same house?
They don't disclose what their anti-cheating measures consist of, but I would have thought using the same ISP address is risking detection. Whether that resulted in accusations remains to be seen. That might also depend on the moves "being too good for the player's rating".

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:32 pm

Danny Gormally has withdrawn before round 1 of the British Online Championship in a protest regarding the inclusion of a suspicious account. To be fair there's probably a few, but hopefully the Zoom aspect will cut through their options a little bit.
https://twitter.com/elgransenor1?ref_sr ... r%5Eauthor

RobWillmoth
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by RobWillmoth » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:38 am

Looks like Danny was right. Having had accounts closed in lichess and chess24 now chess.com have also flagged him for breaching fair play

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:07 pm

RobWillmoth wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:38 am
Having had accounts closed in lichess and chess24 now chess.com have also flagged him for breaching fair play
It does seem less than likely that a player approaching 50 could do well in the qualifiers without, it would seem, any recent previous over the board experience.

Did he self identify as a player previously active on the ECF grading database?

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