Cheating in chess

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Feb 08, 2024 3:07 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:51 pm
In one fixture this season, an opposition player used his phone to check his opponents grade, a second remained sat at the board inputting a finished game into phone and a third left a phone ringing in his bag. And in another match one player put his phone on silent and picked it up to read a message whilst sat at the board. Nobody was cheating, but all were distracting.
The rules should probably be changed to make it clear that phones must be switched off during play. That should mean "off" rather than standby. A local league can allow leniency if a phone remains switched on but is otherwise out of use. A valid exception can be for the match captain to be allowed to attempt contact with missing players.

J T Melsom
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by J T Melsom » Thu Feb 08, 2024 3:28 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 3:07 pm
J T Melsom wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:51 pm
In one fixture this season, an opposition player used his phone to check his opponents grade, a second remained sat at the board inputting a finished game into phone and a third left a phone ringing in his bag. And in another match one player put his phone on silent and picked it up to read a message whilst sat at the board. Nobody was cheating, but all were distracting.
The rules should probably be changed to make it clear that phones must be switched off during play. That should mean "off" rather than standby. A local league can allow leniency if a phone remains switched on but is otherwise out of use. A valid exception can be for the match captain to be allowed to attempt contact with missing players.
Bucks rules are as proposed by a former member of your club! In a local league a captain insisting on default would probably be unpopular with his/her own player as well as the opponent. In the second match I had mentioned a grace period for captains as my own side was missing a player, but the opposition had all arrived. Not just opponents who stray. I reached the end of a fixture and discovered my Amazon Fire was still on...

Peter Ackley
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Peter Ackley » Thu Feb 08, 2024 3:42 pm

For local leagues I'm more than happy for:
-phones to be off by default
-agreements possible for phones to be on/used under certain circumstances (emergencies, on-call, missing player) but on silent
-a warning to be issued for the first transgression (within a season)

However my main point would be all of this needs to be sorted out BEFORE play starts. I don't think that's unreasonable. I really don't mind if an opponent needs their phone on (I did when my father was not well) but just speak to me before the game.

I played a match this month where a phone kept going off. Despite everyone in the room being put off no-one did anything about it. At the point where the phone was found suddenly the bloke closest to it announced it was his and silenced it, and the captain told us that the player had had difficult dentist appointment.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Feb 08, 2024 4:46 pm

Peter Ackley wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 3:42 pm
I played a match this month where a phone kept going off. Despite everyone in the room being put off no-one did anything about it. At the point where the phone was found suddenly the bloke closest to it announced it was his and silenced it

Thesse are the Berkshire rules which date from some years ago possibly as far back as when FIDE first imposed rules banning their presence.
a) Mobile Phones
Mobile Phones and non-medical Electronic Devices capable of running chess software are allowed to be present in the playing area. They should be switched off (not standby) at or before the start of play and remain switched off for the entire duration of the game. Exceptionally Match Captains may leave the playing area to attempt contact with missing players. Also exceptionally, by agreement between the captains, anyone required by their employment to receive messages may leave a ‘phone in silent mode. Unless the exceptions apply, the penalty for a ‘phone or device ringing or discovered to be switched on are that it should be powered off and two minutes added to the opponent’s time.

John Townsend
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by John Townsend » Thu Feb 08, 2024 4:58 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:

"Unless the exceptions apply, the penalty for a ‘phone or device ringing or discovered to be switched on are that it should be powered off and two minutes added to the opponent’s time."

Not a very severe penalty, I would suggest, considering the potential advantage which might arise from nefarious use of a phone that is ringing or switched on.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:47 pm

Somerset Chess Association very sensibly says,

"Issues covered by FIDE Laws & ECF Competition Rules are not normally repeated in this document."
(FIDE and ECF are linked)

League rules cover about one page - well done!

David Fowler
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by David Fowler » Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:55 pm

It is unfortunate but true that some people will not follow simple instructions, think that they do not apply to them or are unaware of / uninterested in the effect on others that their actions have (such is the power of the omnipresent and addictive smartphone). To make matters even worse some match captains are simply ignorant of the laws / rules or just dismissive of them - incredibly even certain county captains in my experience fall into that category I'm very sorry to say. It doesn't help that some competitions seem determined to deviate from the simple expedient of following FIDE, thereby further complicating matters. Where playing chess is concerned mobile phones and similar devices are simply a curse.

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Alex McFarlane » Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:07 pm

If I had a tenner from everyone who assured me that "My phones off, it's in silent mode" or "My phones off, it's in aircraft mode" I would be able to hire a hall for a weekend congress. They are then unhappy to be told that there phone is not off. I've even had people argue that these modes mean the phone is off and should not be banned.

It is also annoying the number of people who finish their game and, almost immediately, switch on their phone rather than waiting an additional 30 seconds until they get out of the hall. At some point, even though I've seen them switch the phone on, I might declare that they have an active phone and cannot prove it was not on during the game. Therefore they lose.

Another common answer is "I'm not playing/My game is finished". Oblivious, apparently to the possibility they are passing moves to a friend or are being suspect of doing so by another player.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:09 pm

David Fowler wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:55 pm
I'm very sorry to say. It doesn't help that some competitions seem determined to deviate from the simple expedient of following FIDE, thereby further complicating matters.
FIDE have a history of periodic stupidity in their rule making. Anyone for defaulting players who are 10 seconds late?

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul Cooksey » Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:10 pm

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.

Requiring phones to be turned off rather than on silent probably doesn't do much to make cheating harder. But is inconvenient leaving my phone at home for matches where the likelihood of cheating is very low.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:30 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:10 pm
Requiring phones to be turned off rather than on silent probably doesn't do much to make cheating harder.
It may depend on the phone. I've found on Android phones that whilst reactivation from standby is usually instant, a restart from power down can take a minute or more as the phone reboots.

Can we be absolutely sure that a phone on silent will never make a noise?

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:03 pm

"FIDE have a history of periodic stupidity in their rule making"

They write the Laws for small events played by elite players, probably staged in the hotel in which they are staying. They never consider that in GB eg, we are playing evening leagues where people go straight from work, and probably have phones, laptops etc with them.

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:52 am

David Fowler wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:55 pm
It is unfortunate but true that some people will not follow simple instructions
It isn't that easy. You race to a match after work, arrive flustered and five minutes late having missed the "turn off your phones" announcement, bang out your first move before taking your coat off and just forget that there's a phone in the pocket. It would be very helpful if FIDE rated events which have no choice but to impose draconian penalties and others which choose to do so could put a big sign on the door as you go in.

I had an awkward moment in the first round of the World Seniors in Palermo. I had been for a walk, misjudged the time and headed straight to the tournament hall. I went though the full barrage of anti-cheating measures, including metal detectors, and sat at the board. During the Chief Arbiter's lengthy opening remarks I fished around in my pocket for a pen and discovered a mobile phone, obviously turned on. I made a successful escape back to my room.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:59 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:52 am
David Fowler wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:55 pm
It is unfortunate but true that some people will not follow simple instructions
It isn't that easy. You race to a match after work, arrive flustered and five minutes late having missed the "turn off your phones" announcement, bang out your first move before taking your coat off and just forget that there's a phone in the pocket. It would be very helpful if FIDE rated events which have no choice but to impose draconian penalties and others which choose to do so could put a big sign on the door as you go in.

I had an awkward moment in the first round of the World Seniors in Palermo. I had been for a walk, misjudged the time and headed straight to the tournament hall. I went though the full barrage of anti-cheating measures, including metal detectors, and sat at the board. During the Chief Arbiter's lengthy opening remarks I fished around in my pocket for a pen and discovered a mobile phone, obviously turned on. I made a successful escape back to my room.
You were allowed to go back to your room? :shock:

Oh hang on, the game had not started yet. What would you have done if the game had started? And why did the metal detectors not pick up the phone?

David Fowler
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by David Fowler » Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:05 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:52 am
David Fowler wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:55 pm
It is unfortunate but true that some people will not follow simple instructions
It isn't that easy. You race to a match after work, arrive flustered and five minutes late having missed the "turn off your phones" announcement, bang out your first move before taking your coat off and just forget that there's a phone in the pocket. It would be very helpful if FIDE rated events which have no choice but to impose draconian penalties and others which choose to do so could put a big sign on the door as you go in.

I had an awkward moment in the first round of the World Seniors in Palermo. I had been for a walk, misjudged the time and headed straight to the tournament hall. I went though the full barrage of anti-cheating measures, including metal detectors, and sat at the board. During the Chief Arbiter's lengthy opening remarks I fished around in my pocket for a pen and discovered a mobile phone, obviously turned on. I made a successful escape back to my room.
With respect it is that easy, you're just making excuses for the many people who have fallen for the omnipresent and addictive nature of the beast. Just let people take responsibility for their actions, mistakes included (one of the lessons we learn when playing our game). I agree that a 'turn off your phones' announcement should be made, but the majority of players (especially including those like yourself who play numerous games) shouldn't use the fact that they missed it as an excuse. Of course for team events a good match captain will ensure that their players are aware and compliant with all relevant laws / rules.

As to your own example, I'm really not sure what it is meant to prove. Would 'misjudged the time' be a reason for potentially disturbing the presumably numerous innocent parties in their deliberations ?