Cheating in chess

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Pete Heaven
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Pete Heaven » Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:15 pm

I don't think you can generalise as to how people cheat online. It will depend a lot on their age and OTB ability. For example, a well-known club official in Wales, rated in the lower echelons of club chess, played 3 'friendly' blitz games against someone in his club who was rated 600 points higher, two with white, one with black. In the black game, he moved pretty quickly and was ripped to shreds. In the 2 white games, he played virtually every move in 6 seconds or longer, played all the top moves to go to +6 - +10, before blundering when he got down to seconds remaining and finally losing on time. In 45+15 games, his MO is completely different, throwing in plausible sub-optimals when he thinks it prudent to do so. He still manages a centipawn score far better than all of Wales's best players and has currently won 8 games in a row, double his best winning streak OTB in the past 13 years, when our online ratings began. So it takes all sorts of cheating styles at blitz, rapid or classical. And people have got very good at it after 21 months of practice and minimal regulation. Better than this chap anyway. (This may seem like irrefutable evidence but he hasn't been banned).

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:43 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:30 am
There must also be players who claim their opponent has cheated because they were dissatisfied with the result of the game.
I believe what you just described accounts for the overwhelming majority of online cheating claims.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:42 am

Joey
>If you were the one being cheated I dare say you too would want swift and terrible vergence meted out on your opponent.<

Don't ever try playing poker. Some opponents think that cheating is just part of the game and in no way unethical. Some of those were welcome opponents because they were still weak players. Such player though didn't think it was OK to hit one on the head and steal one's money.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:29 am

Joey Stewart wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:12 pm
Phil Neatherway wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:22 pm
Joey,
how can you tell if someone on lichess is using a computer?
They win with absolute ease and I never get a single chance the whole game - I've played against grand masters and got further then that so there no way a random 2200 scrub on the internet is secretly the greatest player in history, they are definitely cheats.

They get into awful positions early on and suddenly their play becomes incredibly accurate with brilliant tactics - again, unless they are titled in some way I am not giving them the benefit of the doubt and sending the game in as evidence they turned their engine on mid game.

Even if players like this are not using engine are simply underrated that in still in itself a form of cheating and deserves punishment so either way I have the moral high ground and irrefutable evidence of cheating!
Can you show us any games
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:15 am

You just want to see me lose don't you.....
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:56 pm

Ok, here is one that involves cheating but also a happy ending - observe as he bulldozes the position (not a theory position too, it should be added, so there is no way he had this line memorised) into a clear win but turns the engine off and proceeds to botch the rest of the game so badly it ends up a loss.


https://lichess.org/VY9pBRZr1BqP
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:03 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:56 pm
Ok, here is one that involves cheating but also a happy ending - observe as he bulldozes the position (not a theory position too, it should be added, so there is no way he had this line memorised) into a clear win but turns the engine off and proceeds to botch the rest of the game so badly it ends up a loss.


https://lichess.org/VY9pBRZr1BqP
Are you sure you linked to the right game? In this one black makes a number of bad moves and then white hangs a piece. :?

KingsChessAdmin +4
1 inaccuracy
1 mistake
5 blunders
65 Average centipawn loss

lucasheinecke −4
1 inaccuracy
1 mistake
6 blunders
93 Average centipawn loss

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:08 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:03 pm
Are you sure you linked to the right game? In this one black makes a number of bad moves and then white hangs a piece. :?
Later Black attempts to deliver mate, but gets mated himself. It's a 3 0 game, so no real time for thought or consulting external devices.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:14 pm

Regardless of what lichess garbage inbuilt engine says Black never actually blundered until very short on time, developed far too dominant of a position and played totally unacceptably wierd moves for it to have been from the mind of a natural Caro Kahn player - these people don't have an engine open on the side anymore, they have plugins built into their browser analysing the moves as played on the board and just pick when they wish to copy moves from it.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Richard Bates
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:19 pm

I feel very sorry for all these people who are apparently stuck in a strength band where they spend most of the time competing against people who are determined cheaters but are clearly only in it to p*ss people off as they never seem to be able to cheat to a strength much above 2200. For my part in thousands of games of online blitz i don't think i've ever suspected an opponent of cheating. Even when the site has subsequently banned them!

I've had the odd accusation chucked my way though - what can i say? Sometimes i play perfect chess! :)

Richard Bates
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:26 pm

Incidentally, if this individual played a load of weird moves that were totally unnatural to a Caro Kann player, but ended up with a totally winning position, does that mean that Caro Kann experts don't actually understand their own opening very well?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:29 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:14 pm
these people don't have an engine open on the side anymore, they have plugins built into their browser analysing the moves as played on the board and just pick when they wish to copy moves from it.
Don't lichess and chess.com have some form of built in spyware that can detect the use of browser extensions and plugins? You presumably are also claiming that the supposed plugin is a good deal better than the lichess analysis engine. But if lichess believe in their built in engine and use it to detect players who play moves better than their rating, your complaints aren't goimg to make any headway if their engine thinks the play is rubbish.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:48 pm

I didn't report this guy, since I got my win it lightened my mood somewhat but he's definitely not getting another game
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Nick Burrows » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:54 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:48 pm
but he's definitely not getting another game
He must be gutted

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:23 pm

I think he actually will be gutted, as the only point of cheating like that is to ruin someone elses experience and he simultaneously failed to do that and also exposed the engine use - I hope he reads this thread and is absolutely fuming !
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.