Cheating in chess
-
- Posts: 5833
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: Cheating in chess
"Just my view."
I agree. I quite accept what Alex says and it is understandable, but if the player does return and does something wrong, it will be a "first offence". If there had been some sort of investigation, the verdict on the previous case could affect that.
I agree. I quite accept what Alex says and it is understandable, but if the player does return and does something wrong, it will be a "first offence". If there had been some sort of investigation, the verdict on the previous case could affect that.
-
- Posts: 10362
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Re: Cheating in chess
AgreedKevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:36 am"Just my view."
I agree. I quite accept what Alex says and it is understandable, but if the player does return and does something wrong, it will be a "first offence". If there had been some sort of investigation, the verdict on the previous case could affect that.
Any postings on here represent my personal views
-
- Posts: 7218
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
- Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Re: Cheating in chess
I have seen discussion in other places that the Igor Rausis photograph was staged.
Reason(s)given was that he agreed to this to avoid revealing the exact method of cheating.
A mobile telephone hidden in a sock and used in the toilet is not ground breaking technology.
Reason(s)given was that he agreed to this to avoid revealing the exact method of cheating.
A mobile telephone hidden in a sock and used in the toilet is not ground breaking technology.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess
-
- Posts: 10364
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Somewhere you're not
Re: Cheating in chess
Claims of staged photographs are very much the theme du jour
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
-
- Posts: 7218
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
- Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Re: Cheating in chess
Can anyone confirm if software exists that allows a camera to recognise a position and punt that position into an engine for analysis ?
Last edited by John Upham on Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess
-
- Posts: 21315
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Cheating in chess
There was a system called "Chess Vision" which supposedly could do the DGT thing of transmitting games. Presuming that it could capture in pgn format, any engine could then be used for analysis.John Upham wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:14 pmCan anyone conform if software exists that allows a camera to recognise a position and punt that position into an engine for analysis ?
Nothing much has been heard of it recently.
http://www.illist.co/company_page/chess-vision
-
- Posts: 3735
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
- Location: Hayes (Middx)
Re: Cheating in chess
I would have thought this might be a difficult product to implement. It would require some AI style recognition of a digital image file to determine what the pieces are, what colour they are and what colour the squares are, and then tokenising that. Once tokenised, of course, it becomes a rather trivial exercise.John Upham wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:14 pmCan anyone conform if software exists that allows a camera to recognise a position and punt that position into an engine for analysis ?
For chess board images built up from character codes for the pieces and squares, of course, the tokenisation is already in place; it might need some linearisation or other sorting, but again fairly trivial. However, that is not the normal way to produce chess board images.
Thinking about it further, though, the various servers or publishers have a limited library of pieces and squares which they use to produce these images. Recognising pieces which are predetermined in form should not be so difficult. You would need to take scaling and suchlike into account, but not a huge amount of work, particularly if you focus on one type of set ("Staunton") on one server ("chess.com") and switch off any image enhancements (e.g. 3D, shading, etc.)
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: Cheating in chess
For what it is worth, given the player verbally admitted he was cheating, I expect it would be non-trivial arguing that a subsequent cheating conviction would be a "first offence".Mick Norris wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:37 pmAgreedKevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:36 am"Just my view."
I agree. I quite accept what Alex says and it is understandable, but if the player does return and does something wrong, it will be a "first offence". If there had been some sort of investigation, the verdict on the previous case could affect that.
-
- Posts: 1266
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm
Re: Cheating in chess
I'm sure Jon Ashworth could help out with suitably convincing arguments.Alex Holowczak wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:34 pmFor what it is worth, given the player verbally admitted he was cheating, I expect it would be non-trivial arguing that a subsequent cheating conviction would be a "first offence".Mick Norris wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:37 pmAgreedKevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:36 am"Just my view."
I agree. I quite accept what Alex says and it is understandable, but if the player does return and does something wrong, it will be a "first offence". If there had been some sort of investigation, the verdict on the previous case could affect that.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.
-
- Posts: 5249
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
- Location: Croydon
Re: Cheating in chess
Brian Towers wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:42 pmI'm sure Jon Ashworth could help out with suitably convincing arguments.
As not everyone will click on the link. please could I make it clear that the reference is to John Ashworth the Labour politician. NOT to his namesake John Ashworth, Chief Executive Officer of Caplin Systems, the new sponsors of the Hastings Congress.
-
- Posts: 1266
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm
Re: Cheating in chess
Erm, no it isn't. The Labour politician spells his name "Jon", short for "Jonathan". I'm not aware of any Labour politician called "John Ashworth".David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:49 pmAs not everyone will click on the link. please could I make it clear that the reference is to John Ashworth the Labour politician. NOT to his namesake John Ashworth, Chief Executive Officer of Caplin Systems, the new sponsors of the Hastings Congress.Brian Towers wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:42 pmI'm sure Jon Ashworth could help out with suitably convincing arguments.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.
-
- Posts: 5249
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
- Location: Croydon
Re: Cheating in chess
Thank you Brian.Brian Towers wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:55 pmErm, no it isn't. The Labour politician spells his name "Jon", short for "Jonathan". I'm not aware of any Labour politician called "John Ashworth".David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:49 pmAs not everyone will click on the link. please could I make it clear that the reference is to John Ashworth the Labour politician. NOT to his namesake John Ashworth, Chief Executive Officer of Caplin Systems, the new sponsors of the Hastings Congress.Brian Towers wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:42 pmI'm sure Jon Ashworth could help out with suitably convincing arguments.
I'll let my post stand, for the benefit of anyone else who makes the same mistake as I did.
-
- Posts: 5833
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: Cheating in chess
"For what it is worth, given the player verbally admitted he was cheating, I expect it would be non-trivial arguing that a subsequent cheating conviction would be a "first offence"."
That would help - assuming you have contemporaneous statements from witnesses to that. And he might turn up with Elon Musk's lawyer (and jury).
That would help - assuming you have contemporaneous statements from witnesses to that. And he might turn up with Elon Musk's lawyer (and jury).
-
- Posts: 1266
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm
Re: Cheating in chess
I'm not sure what help witnesses to his verbal admission would be. After all, if you can write in a book that 20 years ago you punched a drunk in Amsterdam and then dumped his body in a canal and then when the Dutch police match a body to the time and place claim that what you wrote was a publicity stunt and walk away a free man then clearly neither Elon Musk's lawyer nor his jury are required.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:02 pm"For what it is worth, given the player verbally admitted he was cheating, I expect it would be non-trivial arguing that a subsequent cheating conviction would be a "first offence"."
That would help - assuming you have contemporaneous statements from witnesses to that. And he might turn up with Elon Musk's lawyer (and jury).
The underlying point remains: an historic verbal admission of cheating is worth very little in the absence of further conclusive action.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.
-
- Posts: 10364
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Somewhere you're not
Re: Cheating in chess
For the record, I believe this account may appear in the newspaper serialisation of the book and not in the book itself.Brian Towers wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:25 pmAfter all, if you can write in a book that 20 years ago you punched a drunk in Amsterdam and then dumped his body in a canalKevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:02 pm"For what it is worth, given the player verbally admitted he was cheating, I expect it would be non-trivial arguing that a subsequent cheating conviction would be a "first offence"."
That would help - assuming you have contemporaneous statements from witnesses to that. And he might turn up with Elon Musk's lawyer (and jury).
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com