Cheating in chess

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:28 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:Here's an example. You've finished your own game, but there's at least one other game going on. It's an ending within the scope of tablebases, so you return to your room and look it up to establish the theoretical verdict. Obviously you don't communicate this to the player, but should you discuss it with the match captain or the rest of your team who have completed their games?
I would say things like that should *not* be communicated to the captain, nor should the captain consult any external sources until the match is finished. Though sometimes the captain may have gone home and left things with a deputy (not sure if that might cause problems if a genuine dispute arose). This is less of a concern with the 4NCL, as positions are not adjudicated, but would be a concern in a league where adjudications take place.

(In some forms of correspondence chess, for example, the game finishes immediately a tablebase position is reached.)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:14 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: (ii) How widespread is it? The question everyone will keep asking.
Smokers permitting, keep an eye on how often opponents leave the room when not their move, or even worse, when it is their move. That's not the say that wanderers are cheating, but they have more opportunity.


Stephen Moss has some observations in a piece for the Guardian website.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -nigalidze

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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by David Robertson » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:46 pm

Stephen Moss wrote:A Russian grandmaster friend of mine is convinced that cheating in top-level open tournaments (as opposed to elite events with small invited fields) is rife
This is what Stephen Moss had to say in his longer Guardian piece today. Alarming, if true. Is this the impression one gets from Gibraltar, for example?

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:36 pm

Who is this Russian Grandmaster? Danny Gormallyski?

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:10 pm

All this cheating is getting chess in the news.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:31 pm

David Robertson wrote:
Stephen Moss wrote:A Russian grandmaster friend of mine is convinced that cheating in top-level open tournaments (as opposed to elite events with small invited fields) is rife
This is what Stephen Moss had to say in his longer Guardian piece today. Alarming, if true. Is this the impression one gets from Gibraltar, for example?
It's not the impression I get from Gibraltar, for what that's worth.

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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by David Robertson » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:48 pm

It might be worth rather a lot. A player of your quality and circumstances would fall slap in the middle of the kind of cohort Moss has in mind. If you don't think cheating is rife, where is it happening?

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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:11 pm

David Robertson wrote: If you don't think cheating is rife, where is it happening?
In the minds of GMs who consider it cheating whenever they lose to someone not of their status.

Like it or not, computers have enabled non professional players to have access to the same information as middling GMs about what ideas the top players are using. If they have the necessary skills they can use engines to at the very least survive the opening and early middle game against their supposedly superior and arrogant GM opponents.

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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:18 am

David Robertson wrote:It might be worth rather a lot. A player of your quality and circumstances would fall slap in the middle of the kind of cohort Moss has in mind. If you don't think cheating is rife, where is it happening?
Cheating certainly does have the potential to destroy the game - and its a more than bit worrying that years on from the French Olmpiad case nobody knows exactly what the penalty for getting caught actually is - but I'm not sure I'm minded to expend any more energy on this particular claim than I was about Danny G's recent outburst. What do we have? An anonymous Russian GM who has apparently said something. And he's said to a journalist who has quoted Raymondo in his article about honesty.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:09 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
David Robertson wrote: If you don't think cheating is rife, where is it happening?
In the minds of GMs who consider it cheating whenever they lose to someone not of their status
No doubt, but to be fair it has to be incredibly difficult to play to your normal strength once you've got it in your head that your opponent might have access to a program.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:33 am

JustinHorton wrote:it has to be incredibly difficult to play to your normal strength once you've got it in your head that your opponent might have access to a program.
The psychological problems of GMs are not the concern of their opponents. In many cases they are losing because their opponent has had access to a program, but before the game when it is completely legal. In other words they have had the misfortune to have been caught in a previously prepared variation.

In almost every recent case, the cheating or alleged cheating has been detected because players have frequently left the board and disappeared out of sight. That should be the obvious behaviour sign that arbiters should be watching for. The recent change of rules requiring devices to be placed in a bag or clothing deemed to be a bag removes any excuses of those who would have a device on their person. Leaving a device concealed in a cubicle does seem to be getting a bit desperate.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:11 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
JustinHorton wrote:it has to be incredibly difficult to play to your normal strength once you've got it in your head that your opponent might have access to a program.
The psychological problems of GMs are not the concern of their opponents.
I think that if fear and suspicion start having a serious impact on the ability of professional players to produce professional-standard chess then we all need to be concerned, because that's the potential death of chess that people are worried about. It doesn't need half the players to be cheating, for chess to be under threat: it just needs half the players to be freaked out by the fear of cheating.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:26 pm

A balanced and objective report from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32294465

Quotes from FIDE in that article as well (from Yuri Garrett, secretary of the Anti-Cheating Commission).

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:18 pm

Ah - that wouldn't be the story linked to a few postings above?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:30 pm

Oops. You are quite right. Sorry about that. :oops:

(I just scanned the thread, rather than click the links)

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