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Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:31 pm
by Neville Twitchell
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:43 pm
Neville Twitchell wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:51 pm
It didn't say who the supposed cheater was and It doesn't seem possible to discover that from anywhere on the website
I think you check back against the user names of your opponents.



This was just in ordinary blitz play, not in a tournament, but I went back through all the opponents from the last day or two (it didn't say when this supposed cheating occurred) and there is no indication of a result being reversed or nullified, so I am none the wiser.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:34 pm
by Neville Twitchell
"I think you check back against the user names of your opponents."

Tournaments running on chess-results have the lichess user names removed after completion of the tournament. Presumably the idea being to make a process of cross-checking lichess suspensions against real names more difficult."

It was in normal blitz play not a tournament, but I went back through all my opponents from the last day or two (it didn't say when this supposed cheating occurred) and there was no indication of a result being reversed or nullified, so I am none the wiser.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:40 pm
by Matthew Turner
Neville,
I don't think they make it easy for you (for perfectly good reasons)
If you are that bothered, you can check the games where you lost 6 points and check the account of the opponent.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:06 pm
by JustinHorton
Possibly not, as I don't think you always get back the same number of points you lost

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:08 pm
by Ian Thompson
Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:40 pm
Neville,
I don't think they make it easy for you (for perfectly good reasons)
If you are that bothered, you can check the games where you lost 6 points and check the account of the opponent.
I don't think that works either. I had the same thing as Neville a few months ago and couldn't determine which opponent it was from looking at their accounts. There weren't any games where I'd lost the number of points I was refunded. I'd only had the account a few days so there weren't that many opponents or games to check.

I still don't know, but my suspicion is that it was an account that was closed a few days later. I got slaughtered in the game and the player profile said my opponent was a well-known GM FIDE rated about 2700, which seemed unlikely when his online rating was about 2200 after a reasonably large number of games.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:34 pm
by Martin Benjamin
John Swain wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:17 am
Martin Benjamin wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:33 pm
Martin Benjamin wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:54 pm
I was very disappointed to hear from a good friend of mine that lichess had restricted his activity because of "violations" which they will not specify.
Good news, as my friend reports:

LiChess have said that they are constantly improving their cheating detection s/w, but that in my case it flagged a false positive. They have removed the restriction on my a/c and apologised for any inconvenience.
It's good news that Lichess have admitted the error of their ways and apologised. It would be helpful to know whether this occurred as a result of an appeal to Lichess or whether their correction was not prompted by the player.
He appealed.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:50 pm
by Kevin Thurlow
Elsewhere on the forum viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11304 you can see the link for a free download of the USCF magazine. Part of this (Page 9) says:-

"Fair play violations—or cheating, as it is more commonly known—continues to be a major concern among players, organizers, and tournament directors. The surge in online play has increased those concerns. To deter cheating and help assure a fair playing environment for all players, US Chess intends to begin posting the results of adjudicated cheating claims. We are working with the Ethics Committee and other committees with
sanctioning authority to solidify the format for such postings. "

This is interesting, as in England we are told that nobody can discuss these issues as it might infringe people's human rights. This is understandable to some extent, but the unbiased observer could well think that the secrecy means that nothing is being done, even in confirmed cases of cheating.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:57 pm
by Paul Robert Jackson
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:50 pm
Elsewhere on the forum viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11304 you can see the link for a free download of the USCF magazine. Part of this (Page 9) says:-

"Fair play violations—or cheating, as it is more commonly known—continues to be a major concern among players, organizers, and tournament directors. The surge in online play has increased those concerns. To deter cheating and help assure a fair playing environment for all players, US Chess intends to begin posting the results of adjudicated cheating claims. We are working with the Ethics Committee and other committees with
sanctioning authority to solidify the format for such postings. "

This is interesting, as in England we are told that nobody can discuss these issues as it might infringe people's human rights. This is understandable to some extent, but the unbiased observer could well think that the secrecy means that nothing is being done, even in confirmed cases of cheating.
Proven cases of dishonesty can have implications for individuals employment & future employment
.....even if it is not work related.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:16 pm
by JustinHorton
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:50 pm
This is interesting, as in England we are told that nobody can discuss these issues as it might infringe people's human rights.
You might have to be a bit more specific as to what you mean there

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:47 pm
by Kevin Thurlow
I have been told you cannot name anyone who is being investigated as even if you clear them, suspicion remains. People are also scared to name a suspect due to fear of legal action. All I want is some sort of statement that somebody investigates concerns and allegations and then does something. But then I guess if they say Lichess or chess.com banned ten people and they were all innocent, that then there's the fear that lichess or chess.com will sue!

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:27 pm
by Joey Stewart
I just feel like this "well we might make a mistake so best to just do nothing" attitude only emboldens the cheaters if they know their crimes can remain anonymous.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:28 pm
by David Sedgwick
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:47 pm
I have been told you cannot name anyone who is being investigated as even if you clear them, suspicion remains. People are also scared to name a suspect due to fear of legal action. All I want is some sort of statement that somebody investigates concerns and allegations and then does something. But then I guess if they say Lichess or chess.com banned ten people and they were all innocent, that then there's the fear that lichess or chess.com will sue!
For the present, the English Bridge Union still publishes the names of those found guilty of Online cheating. See for example https://www.ebu.co.uk/node/3942.

However, I understand that this policy is under review.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:42 pm
by John Upham
I suppose that if 4NCL / ECF / UKCC were 100% convinced of someone's guilt then publishing their name would incur zero risk of being proven incorrect or doubt being thrown upon the case.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:37 pm
by JustinHorton
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:47 pm
I have been told you cannot name anyone who is being investigated as even if you clear them, suspicion remains. People are also scared to name a suspect due to fear of legal action.
The reason I asked is because I wanted to clarify that we were talking about potential libel rather than any specific human rights-related area. (Libel isn't really to do with human rights as such, it's a much older concept, no?) As it goes, you can of course name anybody you like: if you run the risk of libel in doing so, that's nothing specifically to do with online cheating in chess, it's a normal hazard of saying things about people that you may not be able to prove.
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:47 pm
But then I guess if they say Lichess or chess.com banned ten people and they were all innocent, that then there's the fear that lichess or chess.com will sue!
I am not at all sure what you are getting at here. What circumstances are you thinking of?

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:03 pm
by Kevin Thurlow
"I am not at all sure what you are getting at here. What circumstances are you thinking of?"

Well, I guess the organization probably cannot sue, but if you named an individual within that organization and said they acted dishonestly when they banned you, they could try to sue you. I expect chess.com (e.g.) would not want to go down that route as the defendant would recruit a large number of people who would say they had been unfairly banned and that chess.com (or its owner) did not have a good reputation so it could not be damaged.