English Chess Forum

Currently, presently. (I am not sure what you are driving at.)

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JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:46 pm

Van Foreest playing one of those "2700 Or 1600? You Decide" openings

Is this the correct thread

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:46 pm

Currently, presently. (I am not sure what you are driving at.)

My point is that I don't know how you judge "actual" playing strength by an online rating. Are we looking at a weak player who is cheating or a strong player messing about? Also, I don't care.

NickFaulks wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:49 pm

Also, I don't care.

You care enough to read this thread and weigh in with an opinion though.

Joey Stewart wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:24 pm

NickFaulks wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:49 pm

Also, I don't care.

You care enough to read this thread and weigh in with an opinion though.

I look at all of the threads. I felt that Justin's comment was interesting and hope he will elaborate. I see no value in yours.

Last weekend’s Online 4NCL Congress mainly seemed to be the sad spectacle of engine cheats playing other engine cheats, with a few honest players sandwiched somewhere in the middle. I don’t think online long play chess has ever looked as hopeless really, unless I suppose if it’s in a proper hybrid environment.

Matt Bridgeman wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:41 pm

I don’t think online long play chess has ever looked as hopeless really, unless I suppose if it’s in a proper hybrid environment.

Hybrid isn't online, that's the point. It is OTB with technology. You may think of it as a greatly improved version of the old telex matches.

NickFaulks wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:49 pm

Are we looking at a weak player who is cheating or a strong player messing about?

Well it's a nice question, isn't it? Mucking about and then playing to their real strength, or real strength and then cheating? And I don't suppose we can know for sure, but maybe we say OK, let's assume it's possible they're playing to their real strength. What would that real strength be? How strong would you have to be to play bullet games at the standard they are playing them?

(They came to my attention after beating me in a blitz game, which felt potentially whiffy to me so after running the computer over it - their move three an inaccuracy, no other registered errors - I had a look at some others and found my game was the third of four in a row with no moves ranked "mistake" or "blunder" and an average centipawn loss of 12. Well, either this is a very high class player indeed or we may need another explanation.)

Good news is it doesn’t really matter - both engine use and sandbagging are violation of lichess terms of service. So if the evidence is strong enough, then a player can get flagged irrespective of which one it was.

And they've gone.

Surely hybrid chess, at the moment, is online, with Tornelo, Zoom and local arbiters as safeguards. Given the number of bans (eventually) meted out at the World Youth Championships in 2021, it seems that trustworthy local arbiters are key to hybrid chess working.

One player won a silver medal in the World Rapid, despite being called out as a cheat by FIDE's GM commentator in the final, before the commentator caught himself and mumbled something which sounded like he'd just remembered who was paying him. A few months later, this 11 year old was finally banned halfway through the World Superfinal, with its 30,000 euro prize fund. He'd played 23 games to get to this point, eliminating honest players along the way....and FIDE are rating some hybrid games as if they are OTB.

A great improvement on the old Telex matches? How bad were they?!

Pete Heaven wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:53 am

Surely hybrid chess, at the moment, is online, with Tornelo, Zoom and local arbiters as safeguards.

With you so far, if the term "online" is use broadly to mean that there is techological assistance in the transmission of moves.

and FIDE are rating some hybrid games as if they are OTB.

Yes, because it is no easier to cheat in a properly run hybrid event than OTB. In fact it should be harder, because there will always be an arbiter nearby, rather than at the far end of the room.

Are the events you are complaining about really hybrid? I have never heard of the World Superfinal.

A great improvement on the old Telex matches? How bad were they?!

My impression is that they were regarded with some distaste, but only because move transmission was slow and they took forever. Were there also suspicions of cheating, given that players did not know what was going on at the other end of the line? In any case, both issues are now fixed.

"My impression is that they were regarded with some distaste, but only because move transmission was slow and they took forever. Were there also suspicions of cheating, given that players did not know what was going on at the other end of the line? In any case, both issues are now fixed."

From reports I've read (like EC Baker's report in my book on CS chess), the games were interminable - he reports drinking huge amounts of coffee trying to keep awake when he was transmitting moves. I think in those days there weren't suspicions of cheating as "it wasn't the done thing". They accepted information on clock times as well. Nowadays, in the modern self-absorbed days, it is "obvious" that the opponent is cheating, because you lost!

I do recall a report from a telephone match in the National Club event, where each team had an arbiter present and the other team's arbiter announced at one point, "We are claiming the game..." which doesn't sound entirely unbiased.

I have noticed on chess.com that my rating goes up nearly every time I do not play for a week, as someone has been identified as a cheat while I have been away. But when the top ten in a big "Arena" (say 2000 players) are all rated about 1000 and the leader has 31/31, it does make you wonder...

NickFaulks wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:27 am

it is no easier to cheat in a properly run hybrid event than OTB. In fact it should be harder, because there will always be an arbiter nearby, rather than at the far end of the room.

I'm not convinced by that argument. In an OTB event the cheat's first challenge is to get undetected access to electronic equipment to facilitate the cheating. In a hybrid event they've got the equipment in the playing room so it should be easier to cheat.