Cheating in chess

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:33 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:17 am
I was bemused by Maradona's comments about Neymar's
diving. The biggest cheater ever in football was obviously upset that argentina were not able to cheat their way through 2018!
Interesting, but perhaps slightly off topic? ;)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Alex McFarlane » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:23 pm

A player is accused of cheating.

He is asked about his phone.

He leaves the tournament hall without handing over his phone.

He returns and hands over a switched off phone.

Was he followed out of the hall when he didn't immediately hand over his phone? It is stated that it is not known if the phone was on or off at that point. Why was he allowed to continue in the tournament?

There are so many problems with this case and the way it was initially handled that I am not surprised at the final outcome.
My experience of Russian Arbiters is that a number like to use their phones during play so it is not a surprise that implementation of the rule is not always satisfactory.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:47 pm

"There are so many problems with this case and the way it was initially handled that I am not surprised at the final outcome. "

That was probably the committee's thinking, but probably they didn't want to publish that.

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:55 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:47 pm
That was probably the committee's thinking, but probably they didn't want to publish that.
I very much doubt that. It is not Strydom's style to hide behind an easy line of logic when there is really a different one. ETH has said clearly and deliberately that the basis of ACC's actions is unsound.

Nick Grey
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:04 pm

I may be off topic but I have enough exemptions to be followed out of rooms & then be accused of cheating.
My diabetes means more toilet breaks than I will like. Asthma means sometimes leaving to have a puff.
Frequently I see juniors leave to have chats with parents & their computers are left on.
There can be enough cheating going on in this country without looking abroad.
Also I've been on various disputes for long enough to have seen just about anything.

As for the football that has just come on lets hope that there is no cheating or tears from Putin or Shakira, or violence on the pitch from the players.

I'm not surprised at the outcome either, nor lack of some items from publication.

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:09 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:04 pm
I'm not surprised at the outcome either, nor lack of some items from publication.
Which items?

Brian Towers
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Brian Towers » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:15 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:02 pm
Roger > For that matter leaving the board when to move is suspicious<

That is why it is forbidden in the Laws without the arbiter's permission.
No, it's not!

I'm surprised that somebody on the Rules Commission should be ignorant of the relevant rules -
FIDE Laws of Chess wrote:11.2.1 The ‘playing venue’ is defined as the ‘playing area’, rest rooms, toilets, refreshment
area, area set aside for smoking and other places as designated by the arbiter.
11.2.2 The playing area is defined as the place where the games of a competition are played.
11.2.3 Only with the permission of the arbiter can:
11.2.3.1 a player leave the playing venue,
11.2.3.2 the player having the move be allowed to leave the playing area
The player "having the turn" is free to roam the "playing area"
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Brian Towers
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Brian Towers » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:25 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:03 am
I might express concern that spectators are not necessarily banned from following the game on their phone or laptop whilst still being in sight of players.
Well, the FIDE Laws of Chess are fairly clear that this is only allowed with the express permission of the arbiter. Strictly speaking the deputy chief arbiters (and on down), organizer etc. should not have their phones on in the playing venue unless they have got permission from the chief arbiter.
FIDE Laws of Chess wrote:12.8 Unless authorised by the arbiter, it is forbidden for anybody to use a mobile phone or any kind of communication device in the playing venue or any contiguous area designated by the arbiter.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:39 pm

Roger. You've got me - after a fashion.
However,the player on move is not free to wander around the playing area for a long time. He would be stopped by the arbiter in due course. He is allowed to go and assess positions on adjacent boards, especially late in a tournament. I had difficulty with the word analyse. Looking at a position and deciding who stands better, is a form of analysis. The glossary has its own special definition.

When I included the word contiguous I was mainly thinking of spectator areas. But I was concerned that the word contiguous was not well-known to foreigners. But nobody ever questioned it in my time.

NickFaulks
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:52 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:39 pm
However,the player on move is not free to wander around the playing area for a long time.
Why not?

LawrenceCooper
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:19 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:52 pm
Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:39 pm
However,the player on move is not free to wander around the playing area for a long time.
Why not?
Because he'll lose on time :wink:

NickFaulks
Posts: 4522
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:24 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:19 pm
Because he'll lose on time :wink:
Actually, that raises a real point. Is it the arbiter's role to remind a player, as per Stewart's suggestion, that it's his go and his clock is running?

Ian Thompson
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Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:50 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:19 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:52 pm
Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:39 pm
However,the player on move is not free to wander around the playing area for a long time.
Why not?
Because he'll lose on time :wink:
... at which point he'll become a spectator and have no right to be in the playing area at all.

NickFaulks
Posts: 4522
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:01 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:50 pm
... at which point he'll become a spectator and have no right to be in the playing area at all.
Really? Where has that come from?

Ian Thompson
Posts: 1919
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:13 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:01 pm
Ian Thompson wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:50 pm
... at which point he'll become a spectator and have no right to be in the playing area at all.
Really? Where has that come from?
FIDE Rule 11.4 - "Players who have finished their games shall be considered to be spectators."

FIDE Rule 11.2.3.3 "Only with the permission of the arbiter can a person who is neither a player nor arbiter be allowed access to the playing area."

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