Cheating in chess

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NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:58 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:39 am
Detecting players with live phones or tablets, particularly running chess software is surely just a question of observation.
The point is that the Lithuanian organisers did not start from the position that cheating does not happen, so there is no need to observe.

Chris Rice
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Chris Rice » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:07 pm

In the recent World U-14s, Gines Esteo Pedro Antonio from Spain finished equal first with Georgian player, Kacharava Nikolozi. Gines took the U14 title on tie break largely determined by winning the 11th and last round match against Alexander Krastev from Germany. In the position below we reach the crucial moment where it appears White is drawing easily but then plays the disastrous Ke5?? Image
Easily done you would have thought, both players with little time left and under huge pressure. These things happen. But not according to Azmai (who if you'll remember went right out of his way to defend a cheater from Georgia, who got caught hiding a mobile behind a toilet in a Dubai tournament) who said on FB: "White to move and black is becoming world champion under 14! Is it cheating or not? I’m asking this question to FIDE and ACP. Unfortunately I cannot react because by this result Georgian player Nikoloz Kacharava didn’t become a world champion and I’m Georgian too..." which frankly I found quite disgusting. He pretends he is not accusing the German of cheating but there is no doubt that that's exactly what he's doing. Given his position as ECU President this is completely out of order and he really ought to be reprimanded for it but one assumes no one will do anything. Later on in the thread he says "So white moved Ke5? This move may intuitively come from someone who started to play chess but not someone who has ELO of almost 2300". Even his fellow Georgians roasted him for his comments.

J T Melsom
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by J T Melsom » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:16 pm

I'm confused - I read a post elsewhere which described the ECU President as charming or in similar terms.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:24 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:07 pm
Easily done you would have thought, both players with little time left and under huge pressure. These things happen.
Perhaps a delusion that he could play for a win by hitting the Knight? Cheating would be looking up the 6 man tables on his phone and finding Kf3, although Kg3 draws as well.

(edit) Particularly since Black's last move would appear to have been Kg6-h5 (/edit)

(more edit) In fact .. Nc4+ is the only move as .. Nb7 loses according to the tablebase. Dangerous things Knight forks. If you want a calculation short cut don't put valuable material on the same colour squares (/ more edit)
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

J T Melsom
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by J T Melsom » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:28 pm

Exactly as Roger says - I'm sure most of us have seen similar at club level. The grades or ratings are hardly a guarantee of accurate play given the clock situation and the competitive context.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:04 pm

I mean, super GMs have blundered worse than that on occasion......
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Chris Rice
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Chris Rice » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:56 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:04 pm
I mean, super GMs have blundered worse than that on occasion......
Indeed a couple of days ago Michael Adams made a similar error playing f6 and allowing ...Nc3+

Image

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:28 am

J T Melsom wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:16 pm
I'm confused - I read a post elsewhere which described the ECU President as charming or in similar terms.
Really? The man has on some occasions ( not this one ) displayed certain merits, but charm?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:39 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:28 am
Really? The man has on some occasions ( not this one ) displayed certain merits, but charm?
A sardonic reference to this post and those following presumably.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9869&hilit=zurab&start=135#p221991

Richard Bates
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Richard Bates » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:01 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:24 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:07 pm
Easily done you would have thought, both players with little time left and under huge pressure. These things happen.
Perhaps a delusion that he could play for a win by hitting the Knight? Cheating would be looking up the 6 man tables on his phone and finding Kf3, although Kg3 draws as well.

(edit) Particularly since Black's last move would appear to have been Kg6-h5 (/edit)

(more edit) In fact .. Nc4+ is the only move as .. Nb7 loses according to the tablebase. Dangerous things Knight forks. If you want a calculation short cut don't put valuable material on the same colour squares (/ more edit)
Without consulting my tablebase i’m struggling to identify how Nb7 can possibly lose...

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John Saunders
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by John Saunders » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:31 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:56 pm
Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:04 pm
I mean, super GMs have blundered worse than that on occasion......
Indeed a couple of days ago Michael Adams made a similar error playing f6 and allowing ...Nc3+

Image
Mickey's 56.f6 was not a blunder. If you leave your analysis engine on, you'll discover that White is lost whatever he does after Black's 55th move. The last chance for a possible save was on move 54 when the analysis engine tells us the position would have been level after 54.Kc5 rather than 54.Ke4. Even so the word 'blunder' is the wrong one in these circumstances as the position is extremely hard for a human to save. Even if he had found 54.Kc5 I expect he would still have had a lot of problems to solve before getting anywhere close to a draw.
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Geoff Chandler
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:54 pm

Hi Nick,

I too cannot see a White win.



The Knight dances around the b6 pawn.
Even without the g7 pawn that is drawn.

I see Roger did a few editing on that post (been there and had a recent nightmare) probably a finger slip.

From the game (White to play)



With a clock ticking one may think passive defence would eventually get zugzwanged due to
the Knight being able to lose a tempo forcing a King move and lost positions like the one below...



...flit into the mind. So in the game the lad quickly thought ;

"Best to get the Knight perpetual going ASAP." and played Ke5 OOPS!

Very easily done.

Messing about with it we have this beginners puzzle.

White to play and win.


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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:06 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:07 pm
In the recent World U-14s, Gines Esteo Pedro Antonio from Spain
That's Pedro Antonio Ginés Esteo. He's a local boy, which I hadn't realised until I saw the paper in a bar this morning.

Image
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Mick Norris
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:30 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:01 am
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:24 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:07 pm
Easily done you would have thought, both players with little time left and under huge pressure. These things happen.
Perhaps a delusion that he could play for a win by hitting the Knight? Cheating would be looking up the 6 man tables on his phone and finding Kf3, although Kg3 draws as well.

(edit) Particularly since Black's last move would appear to have been Kg6-h5 (/edit)

(more edit) In fact .. Nc4+ is the only move as .. Nb7 loses according to the tablebase. Dangerous things Knight forks. If you want a calculation short cut don't put valuable material on the same colour squares (/ more edit)
Without consulting my tablebase i’m struggling to identify how Nb7 can possibly lose...
I have the tablebase saying Nb7 draws; when the king gets to c6, the N goes to a5 or d8 and back
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Chris Rice
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Chris Rice » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:46 pm

Chess24 have now done an article on Azmai's accusation. What I didn't realise was there was a witness at the time who said: "The worst part was that he was yelling to the player right after the end of the game, accusing him of bribery(!!), inside the playing hall. He also made an appeal...which was rejected of course."

Azmai has finally managed to apologise after getting shamed by all and sundry on his FB thread:
"My fb friends and not only, I think I was to emotional and overreacted about suspicion of cheating in the last round of world youth under 14. Analyzing what happened I’d like to say that from my position of ECU president I’ve no right to post something without any clear evidence even feeling is based on logical suspicion! Of course I’ve to take into account my official position and care more about young generation. Without any conditions I’d like to apologies to both players if they felt insulted! Thank you for your understanding:) Already in my speech of closing ceremony I mentioned that Spanish player will become a great athlete of his country and now I’d like to add about German player the same! Good luck to both of you guys!"

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