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Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:52 am
by Matt Bridgeman
A junior...
who was in the process of dominating the U1825 4NCL International Congress last weekend, disqualified from the tournament for cheating. Not sure what type of cheating.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:33 pm
by Christopher Kreuzer
Might be an idea to redact the names of juniors when these sort of cases arise. When juniors are involved, the cases can be discussed without naming individuals.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:37 pm
by IM Jack Rudd
There's no real point in redacting a name when it's patently obvious who it is from the publicly available information.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:53 pm
by Christopher Kreuzer
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:37 pm
There's no real point in redacting a name when it's patently obvious who it is from the publicly available information.
That is true. But there is a case for making people go and look it up, rather than make it easy and spreading the information around further, especially if it might need redacting later (for whatever reason). Just suggesting caution.

EDIT: Oh, I see this is being discussed in the tournament thread as well.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:57 pm
by Adam Ashton
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:37 pm
There's no real point in redacting a name when it's patently obvious who it is from the publicly available information.
Unless there are legal reasons I'm not at all sure I agree that they shouldn't be named in any case. Surely damage to reputation is a rather deserved consequence of cheating(and perhaps the most effective deterrent).

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:13 pm
by Nick Grey
This junior ought to be reported to their school & banned from chess with the ECF. We may wait ages for a result from Fide. I hope it gets wide coverage in the national press too. At a time that we have the World Chess Championship about to start in this country too.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:15 pm
by IM Jack Rudd
The ECF can certainly ban him from events it itself organizes, such as the British Championships, but I'm not sure it has meaningful ban power beyond that.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:21 pm
by Christopher Kreuzer
I am going to quote J. T. Melsom from the other thread:
J T Melsom wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:05 am
The organisers have clearly taken steps to protect the integrity of their event, and are no doubt reflecting on further action and statements. Are there any established guide-lines in such cases? Most commenting on this thread don't have first hand knowledge, and at the very least we need to ensure that the process is not contaminated and that there is transparency and justice rather than public lynching. It is a disturbing development, but I'd encourage people to hold fire on comment.
For the record, the 4NCL statement (can't link direct, but it is from here):
4NCL wrote: 06.11.18 - During a routine Anti-Cheating check by the arbiting team during the 1st 4NCL International, a player was found to have used electronic means to assist them with their games.

After further investigation, that player was subsequently disqualified from the tournament. The details have been forwarded to the FIDE Fair Play Commission, and consequently it is not possible to comment further on the case at this time.

We have received a number of questions about the scores of the players in the tournament. Page 13 of the FIDE Anti-Cheating Guidelines, which are binding on us given the tournament is FIDE-rated, say the following:

“In an individual Open tournament, the offender shall be excluded from the final ranking. Each of the offender’s games shall be considered a loss, but the score for the opponent shall remain unchanged. All games shall be reported as unplayed.”

None of the 8 games played by the player have been submitted for FIDE rating, and they will not be submitted for ECF grading.

Alex Holowczak - Chief Arbiter, 1st 4NCL International

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:32 pm
by Nick Grey
Jack, That just shows that the ECF has not got it's code of conduct for it's members correct. Cheats need to be banned, and know if they are cheating that they will be banned from any future games of chess played under ECF/Fide rules.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:44 pm
by IM Jack Rudd
Nick Grey wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:32 pm
Jack, That just shows that the ECF has not got it's code of conduct for it's members correct. Cheats need to be banned, and know if they are cheating that they will be banned from any future games of chess played under ECF/Fide rules.
Yes, but how does it enforce that? The ECF has no reliable way of knowing who has entered an event until the grading file is submitted.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:58 pm
by Richard Bates
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:44 pm
Nick Grey wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:32 pm
Jack, That just shows that the ECF has not got it's code of conduct for it's members correct. Cheats need to be banned, and know if they are cheating that they will be banned from any future games of chess played under ECF/Fide rules.
Yes, but how does it enforce that? The ECF has no reliable way of knowing who has entered an event until the grading file is submitted.
It could refuse to grade any games by the individual and make organisers aware of that. That should be pretty effective I would think.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:07 pm
by Michael Farthing
I hope, and suspect, that such steps will not be necessary. It does strike me, assuming the incident is as severe as it appears, that organisers, once made aware of the situation, will not be over-anxious to welcome the player concerned into their competitions.

[Edit - moved a 'not' to make the meaning slightly clearer]

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:32 pm
by Nick Grey
I also think it could inform organisers & clubs & school listed on the ECF list. I'm considering a report to my own board as well as the Junior League for possibly changing our own conduct matters. Searching the name and clubs on ECF indicate he is local & ought to know right from wrong. I'd rather he did not play chess rather than ruin others competitions and other players games.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:39 pm
by JustinHorton
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:44 pm
Nick Grey wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:32 pm
Jack, That just shows that the ECF has not got it's code of conduct for it's members correct. Cheats need to be banned, and know if they are cheating that they will be banned from any future games of chess played under ECF/Fide rules.
Yes, but how does it enforce that? The ECF has no reliable way of knowing who has entered an event until the grading file is submitted.
I'm winging it here, but is there any reason the ECF could not have a strictly confidential list for the eyes of tournament organisers only? (Do organisers contact the ECF in advance of their events, normally?)

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:57 pm
by Kevin Thurlow
"I'm winging it here, but is there any reason the ECF could not have a strictly confidential list for the eyes of tournament organisers only? (Do organisers contact the ECF in advance of their events, normally?)"

That is a good point. I'm not sure there has been an official confidential list before (or now), but I have been warned privately about certain players in the past. For example, I was able to keep a subtle eye on a player suspected of being a computer cheat. That may be an informal arbiter thing. You cannot openly publish suspicions - that would be most unfair.

Of course the problem with an ECF blacklist (if you can still call it that) is that some people will be maliciously and falsely put on the list and some will be protected by their friends and not appear on the list when they should be there.