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Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:57 pm
by Nick Grey
Needs to be all organisers, and clubs & schools that they play for. Hopefully his name has already done the rounds and his junior team mates will not want to play with him. What must his parents think of him? What does his school think of him?

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:00 pm
by JustinHorton
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:57 pm
Of course the problem with an ECF blacklist (if you can still call it that) is that some people will be maliciously and falsely put on the list and some will be protected by their friends and not appear on the list when they should be there.
I was assuming nobody would be on such a list unless they had actually been disqualified for cheating.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:10 pm
by J T Melsom
I recall some discussions at another time which flagged up weaknesses in the ECF's position with regard to disciplining members. It seems likely that although steps are being taken to identify cheating, procedures after the event are less well defined. Is the ECF allowed for example to state on the website that player x has been disqualified for cheating and is suspended from play pending resolution and leave organisers to treat that notice appropriately. I doubt county associations are any better equipped in these and related matters. A number of years ago a player swore at one of my junior players. I wasn't happy that we couldn't formally apply sanctions, but it was made clear his conduct was unacceptable and I think he was just not selected by his club again, and left as a result.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:31 pm
by Christopher Kreuzer
One problem with an unofficial approach, is that those calling for lifetime bans may end up getting that effect by their actions, when I would be more comfortable with an official approach that could actually be appealed (either in cases of a miscarriage of justice, or for someone requesting to be allowed to return to the game after being reformed or rehabilitated). It is the age-old question of what form reform and rehabilitation efforts should take (if any).

[Sometimes reformed offenders can be those best placed to help catch or educate others.]

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:02 pm
by Roger de Coverly
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:31 pm
One problem with an unofficial approach, is that those calling for lifetime bans may end up getting that effect by their actions, when I would be more comfortable with an official approach that could actually be appealed (either in cases of a miscarriage of justice, or for someone requesting to be allowed to return to the game after being reformed or rehabilitated).
FIDE refer cases to its Ethics Commission who have responded with two and three year bans.

http://ethics.fide.com/images/stories/E ... cision.pdf

http://ethics.fide.com/images/stories/E ... cision.pdf

http://ethics.fide.com/images/stories/E ... cision.pdf

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:11 pm
by Roger Lancaster
While I deplore cheating as much as anyone else, I think it should be taken into account that the offender here was - in legal terms - a child. It's a fundamental basis of our legal system (and that of most civilised countries) that child offenders are treated differently to adults.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:39 am
by Brian Towers
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:02 pm
FIDE refer cases to its Ethics Commission who have responded with two and three year bans.
FIDE are a lot more sensible and responsible than some of the "hang 'em and flog 'em" members of the English Chess Forum.
The matter has been submitted to FIDE. I suggest it would make sense to await their decision and follow their lead with the lad suspended from ECF chess in the meantime. I doubt he has much appetite for chess just at the moment.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:56 am
by Carl Hibbard
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:33 pm
Might be an idea to redact the names of juniors when these sort of cases arise. When juniors are involved, the cases can be discussed without naming individuals.
I agree due to his age I have removed the name.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:55 am
by Martin Crichton
I just came across this and have followed the link back and made some logical deductions.

It is a shame that someone (a teenager) once again has cheated using an electronic device ...also it appears that this has had a huge impact in the u-1850 tournament as he was only caught in the penultamit round 8.

A few rotten apples giving a bad image for juniors...I get very anxious playing juniors now after a bad experience I had playing in the Cork Congress a few years ago. I was playing a junior in a very complicated position and he got up and left the board when it was his move and was gone for 30 minutes...I alerted the arbiter to my concerns....he probably went back to his hotel room?...He returned and the arbiter was watching him the whole time... I still lost the game and here is the kicker...nothing was proved but the kid went on to lose his last 3 games.

Now I prefer playing league chess and seniors events. Small congresses are not monitored enough. Cheaters are trying their luck.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:10 am
by John Upham
It it worth checking recent results from CCF internal competitions also :

http://ratings.fide.com/individual_calc ... 2018-10-01


and

http://ratings.fide.com/individual_calc ... 2018-11-01

Perhaps the issue could have been picked up earlier ?

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:23 am
by Brian Towers
Martin Crichton wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:55 am
I was playing a junior in a very complicated position and he got up and left the board when it was his move and was gone for 30 minutes...I alerted the arbiter to my concerns....he probably went back to his hotel room?
"Only with the permission of the arbiter can a player leave the playing venue" - Article 11.2.3.1 of the FIDE Laws of Chess.
If a competent arbiter established that this is what happened then it is hard to see any other decision than defaulting the game in the same way as if he had been caught in possession of a switched on phone.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:38 am
by Martin Crichton
Thanks Brian but...

Like I said... it was a small congress ( in the Metropol hotel in Cork.)..the arbiter did his best and the kid was being watched for the rest of the tournament and he lost all his remaining games.
Small congresses are not run as effectively as bigger ones and they don't have the resources. I have no complaints about the way the arbiter handled the situation.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:35 pm
by Matt Bridgeman
John Upham wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:10 am
It it worth checking recent results from CCF internal competitions also :

http://ratings.fide.com/individual_calc ... 2018-10-01


and

http://ratings.fide.com/individual_calc ... 2018-11-01

Perhaps the issue could have been picked up earlier ?
I noticed this. He goes from losing regularly to 50-60 rated players earlier in the year to a hot streak of winning 18 out of 20 games from July onwards, into the U1825 event where he's suddenly invincible. I would imagine the cheating wasn't a spur of the moment decision, but a technique he's been perfecting for most of this year.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:40 pm
by Tim Harding
You have to wonder about his parents' view on this sudden change in his performances.
Were they helping him to perfect his cheating system?
Did they need the prize money?

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:06 pm
by Mick Norris
Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:35 pm
I noticed this. He goes from losing regularly to 50-60 rated players earlier in the year to a hot streak of winning 18 out of 20 games from July onwards, into the U1825 event where he's suddenly invincible. I would imagine the cheating wasn't a spur of the moment decision, but a technique he's been perfecting for most of this year.
What's the position with grading those games from July onwards?