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Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:22 pm
by Nick Grey
ONEs T HAT can Possi bly?

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:22 pm
by NickFaulks
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:10 pm
This refers to cheating surely?
All of 2.8 does.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:38 pm
by Nick Grey
In Thames Valley League the reason fpr turning off is to stop use....a

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:41 pm
by Roger de Coverly
NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:02 pm

Would you then be happy for the phone to be on but muted, provided that the muting was guaranteed to be effective?
The laws of OTB prohibit external consultation. You could still observe this with a muted phone, but it's simplest to proscribe that the phone be completely off for the duration of the game.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:36 am
by Ian Thompson
Whilst looking for something else, I came across this, which describes itself as "irwin - the protector of lichess from all chess players villainous."

As it's open source code I was left wondering whether it's commonly used by other online chess playing sites and how difficult it would be to set up your own/a publicly available version of it so you could provide it with your own database of games to assess.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:44 pm
by NickFaulks
Ian Thompson wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:36 am
how difficult it would be to set up your own/a publicly available version of it so you could provide it with your own database of games to assess.
Too difficult for me, but I have been puzzled for years that nobody with the requisite skills has done this.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:35 am
by MartinCarpenter
Irwin seems to rely quite strongly on move times, which isn't going to be remotely as useful for databases of OTB games as it is for online blitz etc.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:38 pm
by Ian Thompson
A 9 rounds online tournament to be played at standard time controls (90 minutes + 30 seconds increment) with quite a lot of prize money at stake, although the prize winners will be determined by a subsequent blitz knockout phase.

Do they really think they can enforce these rules and stop people cheating:

"All players must have a webcam and the possibility of audio activation in their playing devices. Moreover, players have to have an active Skype account in order to communicate with referees or to be contacted by them.

"It is not allowed the presence of more than one player in a room or in a playing area, and no more persons can be in that room or playing area while the game is being played. It is also strictly forbidden to have in the playing room or playing area any other electronical device than the one being used to play.

"All games will be surveilled by Chess.com’s fair play algorithm. They will also be surveilled by arbiters. Furthermore, arbiters will be entitled to use video surveillance of players. Games under video surveillance can be decided both prior to the start of each round, randomly during each round or even by request of a player (arbiters reserve the right to decide in each case). In order to allow video surveillance, players will have to enter a link provided by the organization prior to the start of the round, or when they are asked to (Zoom software will be used for video surveillance).

"A player who fails to let arbiters use that video surveillance (using the player’s webcam), even of the room or playing area he or she is playing at (in order to check if there are other people in the room or area, an electronic device, etc.), may be removed from the tournament immediately.

"Games will be reviewed using Chess.com's fair play review process that may – after arbiters’ additional review – lead to removing a player from the tournament between or in the middle of rounds.

...

"If arbiters need to contact a player during the round they may use Skype to do so. If a player does not allow such communication, he or she may also be withdrawn from the tournament, losing all his or her rights. The Tournament Organization may request identification proof from all participants.

"Players authorize referees to take control of their playing device in order to check if they are running other inadequate software in case they have doubts on this point."


Would anyone with any sense be willing to allow their device to be taken over remotely?

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:19 pm
by Roger de Coverly
Ian Thompson wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:38 pm
Would anyone with any sense be willing to allow their device to be taken over remotely?
If serious chess is to be played on-line in circumstances where arbiters cannot physically be present, something that replicates over the board mutual observation would seem necessary.

The new 4NCL league may work because many of the players know and trust one another. Away from that trust, how should play be organised?

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:37 pm
by Richard Bates
Ian Thompson wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:38 pm
A 9 rounds online tournament to be played at standard time controls (90 minutes + 30 seconds increment) with quite a lot of prize money at stake, although the prize winners will be determined by a subsequent blitz knockout phase.

Do they really think they can enforce these rules and stop people cheating:

"All players must have a webcam and the possibility of audio activation in their playing devices. Moreover, players have to have an active Skype account in order to communicate with referees or to be contacted by them.

"It is not allowed the presence of more than one player in a room or in a playing area, and no more persons can be in that room or playing area while the game is being played. It is also strictly forbidden to have in the playing room or playing area any other electronical device than the one being used to play.

"All games will be surveilled by Chess.com’s fair play algorithm. They will also be surveilled by arbiters. Furthermore, arbiters will be entitled to use video surveillance of players. Games under video surveillance can be decided both prior to the start of each round, randomly during each round or even by request of a player (arbiters reserve the right to decide in each case). In order to allow video surveillance, players will have to enter a link provided by the organization prior to the start of the round, or when they are asked to (Zoom software will be used for video surveillance).

"A player who fails to let arbiters use that video surveillance (using the player’s webcam), even of the room or playing area he or she is playing at (in order to check if there are other people in the room or area, an electronic device, etc.), may be removed from the tournament immediately.

"Games will be reviewed using Chess.com's fair play review process that may – after arbiters’ additional review – lead to removing a player from the tournament between or in the middle of rounds.


...

"If arbiters need to contact a player during the round they may use Skype to do so. If a player does not allow such communication, he or she may also be withdrawn from the tournament, losing all his or her rights. The Tournament Organization may request identification proof from all participants.

"Players authorize referees to take control of their playing device in order to check if they are running other inadequate software in case they have doubts on this point."


Would anyone with any sense be willing to allow their device to be taken over remotely?
Do you have to set up a slop bucket in the corner? ;)

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:47 pm
by Roger de Coverly
Richard Bates wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:37 pm
Do you have to set up a slop bucket in the corner? ;)
When playing at home with no arbiter present, isn't the Rausis style of cheating straightforward for the unscrupulous, even with video surveillance of the playing chair?

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:55 pm
by David Sedgwick
Ian Thompson wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:38 pm
Games will be reviewed using Chess.com's fair play review process that may – after arbiters’ additional review – lead to removing a player from the tournament between or in the middle of rounds.
One of the features on the new online chess world arising from the lockdowns is that major events seem to take place at very short notice. In this instance, the announcement quoted by Ian was made today and the tournament starts in two days' time. Admittedly, players do not need to make travel and accommodation arrangements, but it's unfortunate if they have no proper opportunity to consider the import of Regulations such as these.

The words which I have emboldened above do seem to indicate a significant concession not offered to Justin Horton. Nevertheless, the overall content of the Regulations, taken in conjunction with Justin's experience, leads me to fear that Chess.com may be somewhat trigger happy in their application. It will need a determined arbiting team if that is not to happen.

I seldom make comments about fellow arbiters on this Forum and on this occasion I can't. The Chief Arbiter is IA Nuno Felipe Andrade. I have to confess that I had not previously heard of him.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:44 am
by Ian Thompson
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:47 pm
When playing at home with no arbiter present, isn't the Rausis style of cheating straightforward for the unscrupulous, even with video surveillance of the playing chair?
Any form of electronic cheating would seem pretty easy when a physical search of the player and his surroundings isn't possible.

It would also be straightforward for the player to be sitting at a table with their webcam pointing towards them with an accomplice standing in front of the player and behind the webcam. So long as there's a doorway near the accomplice they can then come and go as necessary without being detected.

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:05 pm
by Mick Norris
Chesstech News Cheaters caught in two online competitions this week
FIDE is looking into eye-tracking as an indicator of forbidden assistance

Re: Cheating in chess

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:23 pm
by Roger de Coverly
Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:05 pm
Chesstech News Cheaters caught in two online competitions this week
Also from your link
Therefore FIDE plans to let all participants sign a clause that they accept to be expelled from a tournament if their play shows a high overlap with engine moves.
I don't see that working in the slightest as it outlaws using pre-prepared theoretical variations.