Cheating in chess

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NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:25 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:01 pm
It was different when, in Britain, we used to arrange a time lag of 5-10 minutes to help overcome this problem. But then Makro thought it was ridiculous and the delay was discontinued.
What did that have to do with chess in Britain?
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Chris Rice
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:16 pm

Last week there was an online tournament on Lichess which involved mainly Latvian players. The tournament was won by Alexei Shirov but only after the "winner" Isa61 was disqualified for cheating. Firstly, let's start by hearing what Shirov had to say about this on social media:

"OK, time has come to draw conclusions about Felix Circenis memorial held on 30th of May from 12.00 till 15.30 (Latvian time) on lichess. Time control was 5+5.

The tournament was clearly marred and damaged by the player that entered at the last moment and his real name was not even registered on chess-results. His results are annulled, life goes on. But nearly everybody would prefer the tournament without his participation.

I also came into conclusion that if we play tournaments without cameras (I think those events still have the right to exist) then the time control can not be more than 3+2, anything more serious has to be on the video."

Indeed the disqualified player was deleted from chess results and Shirov, who is believed to have had a hand in organising the tournament, says that basically Isa61 could have been anybody so there is no point wondering who it is. However, the overwhelming consensus is that Isa61 is Rausis's username, Rausis was born in 1961. First prize in the tournament was 100 euros.
Last edited by Chris Rice on Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Adam Raoof » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:22 pm

This is one good reason to insist on cameras when playing chess online. I have had one player enter under a false name, and another under someone elses name - as soon as they were asked to come on camera that ploy folded!
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Stewart Reuben
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:31 pm

nick >What did that have to do with chess in Britain?<

At that time, and possibly even later, most games played on electronic boards in Britain and broadcast were in internationally rated tournaments. Makro had discouraged the time lag in FIDE Rated events.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:09 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:16 pm
Last week there was an online tournament on Lichess which involved mainly Latvian players. The tournament was won by Alexei Shirov but only after the "winner" Isa61 was disqualified for cheating.
By the tournament organisers only though by the look of it. The account still appears to be active on lichess. What form did the cheating take and how was it detected?

Mike Gunn
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Mike Gunn » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:32 pm

Thibault Duplessis (the founder of Lichess) has explained in a talk available on youtube that they don't actually ban cheaters, they don't allow them to play any more rated games and deliberately pair them against other cheaters. This talk was mentioned either higher up this thread or on another thread (the 4NCL Online one?) and can be found using google.

The talk is a few years old now so it is possible they have changed their strategy now, but I thought it was quite an imaginative/ amusing approach. (They don't tell the cheaters that they are being deliberately paired against other cheaters.)

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:23 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:16 pm
First prize in the tournament was 100 euros.
If nobody knew who he was, how was he going to collect it?
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Ian Thompson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:44 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:23 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:16 pm
First prize in the tournament was 100 euros.
If nobody knew who he was, how was he going to collect it?
Ask for it to be sent to a PayPal account with an unidentifiable e-mail address?

Chris Rice
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:14 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:09 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:16 pm
Last week there was an online tournament on Lichess which involved mainly Latvian players. The tournament was won by Alexei Shirov but only after the "winner" Isa61 was disqualified for cheating.
By the tournament organisers only though by the look of it. The account still appears to be active on lichess. What form did the cheating take and how was it detected?
That isn't clear and Shirov is still maintaining it wasn't Rausis:

"Once again. I said that originally Rausis was registered under the other nick in chess results. That nick was banned by lichess. At the last moment Isa61 enters the event (and many people had no idea who he was), there is no longer time to register him on chess-results. That was the reason of the official decision of the organizing team after the tournament. We have not done any anti cheating procedures although naturally we looked at his games. I really see no reason for further commotion. It's up to lichess technologies to ban nick Isa61 or not."

Click on this link for the game where Shirov lost as White to Isa61 before Isa 61 was disqualified.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:38 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:16 pm
Last week there was an online tournament on Lichess which involved mainly Latvian players. The tournament was won by Alexei Shirov but only after the "winner" Isa61 was disqualified for cheating.
Ian Thompson wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:09 pm
What form did the cheating take and how was it detected?
Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:14 pm
That isn't clear and Shirov is still maintaining it wasn't Rausis:
Shirov doesn't say that the player was disqualified for cheating. His facebook post says "The organizing committee took the decision to exclude the player that failed to complete the correct registration procedure before the start, so his results will not be counted for the tournament table.

Chris Rice
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:03 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:38 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:16 pm
Last week there was an online tournament on Lichess which involved mainly Latvian players. The tournament was won by Alexei Shirov but only after the "winner" Isa61 was disqualified for cheating.
Ian Thompson wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:09 pm
What form did the cheating take and how was it detected?

That isn't clear and Shirov is still maintaining it wasn't Rausis:
Shirov doesn't say that the player was disqualified for cheating. His facebook post says "The organizing committee took the decision to exclude the player that failed to complete the correct registration procedure before the start, so his results will not be counted for the tournament table.
Yes that's what Shirov says but for example Arthur Kogan on the No More Cheating FB thread says:

"Since quite a few already managed to guess the 'mysterious player' name, I believe it's not a secret anymore who was the one kicked out of the friendly tournament organized recently in Latvia? (after winning it!). Sometimes the best or the only way to get convinced and open your eyes is to try and discover it yourself... and yes he sadly did again and without any need of photos in the toilet this time... since with his 'so wise' cheating system he was easily caught and quickly eliminated with full results corrected, something that we would expect to happen earlier also in face to face real chess...
Anyway we all learn from the lessons of others and let's be wise to help each others to fight cheating, and especially be much more clear to condemn it when cheater is repetitive, already caught in action and even confessed...So please think twice before considering to give a cheater another chance..."

Shirov's argument seems weak. I mean requirements to enter an online tournament are pretty minimal and clearly Isa61 got past them. Isa61 played all the games and then was disqualified because Isa61 didn't do what exactly? People are under the impression that Isa61 got thrown out of the tournament for cheating but we haven't yet heard from Lichess on the matter, which would be useful. Of course it could be perhaps that it was only afterwards that the Latvians found out it was Rausis and then retrospectively decided that if they had known they wouldn't have let him in the now 'private' tournament in the first place so erased all trace of him on chess results.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:15 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:38 pm
Shirov doesn't say that the player was disqualified for cheating. His facebook post says "The organizing committee took the decision to exclude the player that failed to complete the correct registration procedure before the start, so his results will not be counted for the tournament table.
While I have zero knowledge of the circumstances here, it's common practice in the wider world - where one is sure someone is guilty of a major crime but proving it will be contentious - to proceed on the basis of a lesser charge where a conviction is more certain.

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Alex McFarlane » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:38 am

From the USCF site
A subcommittee of the Ratings Committee, composed of experts in statistics and other quantitative fields, examined Chess.com’s approach and concluded, “We are confident that the system is able to eventually detect players using computer assistance with very little likelihood of falsely accusing a player.”

US Chess has invited other chess server vendors to follow a similar course, noting that there are experts who would be willing to sign Nondisclosure Agreements, as was done with Chess.com, to review the details of their fair play methodologies. The review of other platforms are at varying stages and there could be vendors who decline to participate.
The full document is available https://new.uschess.org/wp-content/uplo ... proved.pdf

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:50 am

Alex McFarlane wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:38 am
From the USCF site
A subcommittee of the Ratings Committee, composed of experts in statistics and other quantitative fields, examined Chess.com’s approach and concluded, “We are confident that the system is able to eventually detect players using computer assistance with very little likelihood of falsely accusing a player.”

They can detect players using computer assistance. But that's not against the Laws of Chess if it's not whilst the game is in progress.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:52 am

That letter is pure garbage.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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