The Death of League Chess?

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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:43 pm

True - but it's better than being forced to have one finish.

The drawback with the Surrey method is you can have a six-board match with four different time controls!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:23 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:True - but it's better than being forced to have one finish.
Not in my view, all games in a match should be played under the same conditions.

Why is it though that much the same demographic of players has no problems playing out a match on the night in Berkshire, Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire, but it causes such controversy in the areas of the Thames Valley and Surrey leagues?

NickFaulks
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:22 am

Roger de Coverly wrote: Why is it though that much the same demographic of players has no problems playing out a match on the night in Berkshire, Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire, but it causes such controversy in the areas of the Thames Valley and Surrey leagues?
Can you judge how many players in Berkshire are put off club chess because decent games descend into shambles in the final minutes? You have no way of knowing. Personally, I regard a small increment as adequate protection but many players, at both the veteran and inexperienced ends of the spectrum, are not comfortable with this.

While it is ideal that all games in a match should be played at the same time control, it also seems right that if both players prefer a quickplay finish they should be permitted one, ditto adjournments. Difficult question.

I really would get rid of adjudication, though.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:42 am

NickFaulks wrote: Can you judge how many players in Berkshire are put off club chess because decent games descend into shambles in the final minutes?
There's a general preference for G/90 instead of an intermediate time control. If you have to play all moves in 90 minutes, you have to judge the appropriate speed of play. That's not greatly different from playing G/30 or even five minute.

There were a handful of players opposed to quick play finishes. The relevant meetings outvoted them. Adjournment is still in the Rules, but worded to require agreement by both players as well as setting a time and place for resumption before the game is even started.

NickFaulks
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:54 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:The relevant meetings outvoted them.
That's my point, really. You may not be taking into account the views of less committed players who do not attend meetings. You can of course say that if they feel so strongly they should go along to meetings but in the real world they won't, they will simply spend their evenings doing something other than playing club chess. I repeat, there is no perfect solution.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:20 am

I remember members of a Surrey club ranting about the lack of QP finish years ago and I pointed out that their Secretary had voted against QP. His first team colleagues were furious. Apparently, he didn't like QP so voted accordingly! In those days, each club had one representative at AGMs and they were nearly all graded under 100 and had been playing for years, so they would not vote for change.

The funny thing was that people kept claiming that QP would cause lots of disputes, but there actually seem to be fewer than in adjournments, (where people eagerly adjourn and then don't agree a resumption date!), in adjudications, (where at least one player is convinced the decision is wrong) and in normal play, where people don't record the game properly, or walk out the room when it's their move etc.

The big problem with League Chess is that generally the sessions are too short, so if you want a proper game you have to play at the weekend.

Ian Thompson
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:29 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:There's a general preference for G/90 instead of an intermediate time control. If you have to play all moves in 90 minutes, you have to judge the appropriate speed of play. That's not greatly different from playing G/30 or even five minute.
Except that losing on time in a winning position is an accepted part of 5 minute chess, but considered unjust in a 90 minutes game.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:21 pm

Is it really?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

John Townsend
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by John Townsend » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:32 pm

How about having leagues of senior players, say, over 65? Start early afternoon and play games to a finish.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Michael Farthing » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:33 pm

Is that the finish of the games or the finish of the players? :-(

Ian Thompson
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:35 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:Is it really?
It's the point of Appendix G of the Laws, isn't it?

Bob Kane
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Bob Kane » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:55 pm

What about a Sunday morning chess league? they seems to run well in Germany, where games are usually played in a network of sports clubs who provide good conditions.
any thoughts..?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:11 pm

Sunday morning leagues could work, but they run into the same problem as Saturday afternoon leagues: competition from other events, such as weekend congresses.

(If I were running one, I'd probably schedule it so that the league games were part of the same weekend as county matches.)

IanCalvert
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by IanCalvert » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:27 pm

I think , it would be relevant to see a graph showing the proportion of all rated games played in Leagues in each of the last five (say) years together with the actual number of such rated League games.

In this age of "big data" perhaps the ECF could provide, in due course, disagregated rating based data to avoid (or at least inform) some needless argument.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: The Death of League Chess?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:45 pm

IanCalvert wrote:I think , it would be relevant to see a graph showing the proportion of all rated games played in Leagues in each of the last five (say) years together with the actual number of such rated League games.
You would have to draw your own pictures, but there are various counts and statistics published at http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/grad.htm

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