Is Chess a Sport?

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Robert Stokes
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Robert Stokes » Sun May 10, 2015 10:31 pm

Could the answer be, that any activity conventionally accepted as a sport, involves some degree of physical skill. It may involve mental skill as well (especially in something like snooker) but that is beside the point. Bridge, chess, and other mind games don't involve physical skill. They require stamina but that's not the same thing. Chess can't possibly involve physical skill otherwise a 12 year old girl, a 35 year old man, a pensioner and a blind person could not potentially compete with one another on equal terms.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun May 10, 2015 11:42 pm

Robert Stokes wrote:Could the answer be, that any activity conventionally accepted as a sport, involves some degree of physical skill.
Readers of both Forums will be aware of a now silent debate on the ECF website

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/Forum/vi ... ?f=4&t=295

Nick Grey
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Nick Grey » Tue May 12, 2015 12:24 am

Shooting a sport. Pressing a trigger.
VAT - e.g. football pitch hire. Same argument on bookings but only as a sport.
As someone that was training for a marathon 20+ years ago I ran 13 miles to a county match. Hrt monitor too. Was a QP finish too. Heart rate got higher than any of the actual running.
Filling all those exemptions for health reasons - not to say testing is not something I want to see.
Little chance of success in my view...

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David Shepherd
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by David Shepherd » Tue May 12, 2015 1:01 am

Robert Stokes wrote: Chess can't possibly involve physical skill otherwise a 12 year old girl, a 35 year old man, a pensioner and a blind person could not potentially compete with one another on equal terms.
I'm not really sure it is true that they would all compete on an equal basis, I suspect with an equal amount of peak talent the 35 year would be the best. The difference may not be so pronounced as in most sports, but it probably still exists.

Robert Stokes
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Robert Stokes » Tue May 12, 2015 5:37 pm

I used the word "potentially" because it would depend on previous experience and so grade. However, if the four types of people mentioned were of about the same grade in chess then they could play one another on equal terms. There is no "sport" in which they could do this.

Robert Stokes
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Robert Stokes » Tue May 12, 2015 5:51 pm

Another thought. What other "sport" can be played by post or over the internet?

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Tue May 12, 2015 6:00 pm

If I looked at the right list, among the officially recognized UK sport federations you have the association for model planes flying: that is a sport you could literally play with a remote control while resting on a couch! Where's the physical activity in that one?

https://www.bmfa.org

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David Shepherd
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by David Shepherd » Tue May 12, 2015 6:04 pm

Robert Stokes wrote:I used the word "potentially" because it would depend on previous experience and so grade. However, if the four types of people mentioned were of about the same grade in chess then they could play one another on equal terms. There is no "sport" in which they could do this.
Surely in any sport if they are of about the same grade then they can play each other on equal terms, so the 100 metre record for a 70 year old is 12.77 I am not sue many of us on here would fancy our chances against that.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue May 12, 2015 7:24 pm

Robert Stokes wrote:Another thought. What other "sport" can be played by post or over the internet?
Not quite the same thing, I know, but there are quite a few sports where competitors could compete against each other on equal terms without all being in the same place. From this list of recognised English sports:
  • Ballroom dancing
    Baton twirling
    Exercise, movement and dance
    Folk dancing
    Gymnastics
    Yoga
The distinguishing feature of these "sports" is that there is no direct competition between competitors, and the winner is the subjective judgement of someone watching the competitors.

Mike Truran
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Mike Truran » Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:56 am

From the EBU website:

24 Jul 2015
Tax Tribunal refers ‘Bridge is a sport’ appeal to European Court

On 14th July the Upper Tribunal of the Tax and Chancery Chamber heard the case as to whether bridge should be considered a sport for VAT purposes. The case has been referred to the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) to ensure that the intention of the EU article which gives tax exemption to sport is properly followed.

Representing the EBU, David Ewart QC argued that the purpose of the legislation to grant VAT exemption was intended not to support only ‘physical activities’ but instead to encourage participation in all activities with social and health benefits. The presiding officials acknowledged that playing bridge provides these benefits, and as there was no legal precedent on which to base the ruling, referred the case to the CJEU for a judgement on the true intent of the legislation.

MSoszynski
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by MSoszynski » Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:53 am

Robert Stokes wrote:Another thought. What other "sport" can be played by post or over the internet?
Archery, for one. There is even such a thing as the World Correspondence Archery Tournament:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B386A1 ... 15a0k/view
Not decided by "subjective judgement" either.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:59 am

Mike Truran( EBU website) wrote: The case has been referred to the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) to ensure that the intention of the EU article which gives tax exemption to sport is properly followed.
Which is strange, because it's a definition from the Council of Europe which Sport England quote to determine that Chess, Bridge etc. are not sports because of the lack of physical content.

In the UK, there's the old law from the days of Baldwin and Chamberlain which says much the same.

Brian Towers
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Brian Towers » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:32 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mike Truran( EBU website) wrote: The case has been referred to the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) to ensure that the intention of the EU article which gives tax exemption to sport is properly followed.
Which is strange, because it's a definition from the Council of Europe which Sport England quote to determine that Chess, Bridge etc. are not sports because of the lack of physical content.

In the UK, there's the old law from the days of Baldwin and Chamberlain which says much the same.
Spoilsport!
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Marinel Miu
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Marinel Miu » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:12 pm

Chess is a sport undermined by its own non sportive rules. Imagine Man United v Liverpool after 20 minutes in the 1st half, players shacking hands and agreeing a draw. In chess fixing a result is part of the game or sport?
I still don't know what difference does it make to all of us "chess addicts" whether chess is considered a sport or just a game?

Mike Gunn
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Re: Is Chess a Sport?

Post by Mike Gunn » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:50 am

If chess were classified as a sport then chess organisations could apply for funding from the lottery. This could be a source of funding for projects such as the National Chess Library, for example.

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