Computer Go
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Computer Go
A computer has just beaten a Go professional 5-0 in a match.
Our Go playing counterparts may be needing some advice soon
about measures to prevent cheating, although I'm sure the Go
world is much more gentlemanly than our game??
Our Go playing counterparts may be needing some advice soon
about measures to prevent cheating, although I'm sure the Go
world is much more gentlemanly than our game??
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Re: Computer Go
The general principle has been in the Laws of Chess for decades. In its current wording:-Andy Price wrote:Our Go playing counterparts may be needing some advice soon
about measures to prevent cheating
Does Go have something similarly worded?11.3 (a) wrote:During play the players are forbidden to use any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard.
Mobile phones have changed from being a noise hazard to being a cheating hazard.
Nominally 11.3(b) says
The practice is less onerous, recognising that players will have a phone for potential use before and after the game. Some British arbiters will apply a rule to put in in a bag during play, to ensure that it cannot be consulted whilst in play.11.3(b) wrote:During play, a player is forbidden to have a mobile phone and/or other electronic means of communication in the playing venue. If it is evident that a player brought such a device into the playing venue, he shall lose the game. The opponent shall win.
The rules of a competition may specify a different, less severe, penalty.
The arbiter may require the player to allow his clothes, bags or other items to be inspected, in private. The arbiter or a person authorised by the arbiter shall inspect the player and shall be of the same gender as the player. If a player refuses to cooperate with these obligations, the arbiter shall take measures in accordance with Article 12.9.
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Re: Computer Go
Rather ignorant but don't think there's any terribly meaningful professional Go in the UK (or Europe), China/Japan etc probably rather different, but goodness knows what the culture is like
(Beyond it being very seriously studied as an abstract game.).
Bit sad to have one of the last bastions of human supremacy crumbling rather, but technology marches on....
(Beyond it being very seriously studied as an abstract game.).
Bit sad to have one of the last bastions of human supremacy crumbling rather, but technology marches on....
Re: Computer Go
Yes computers can now beat Go professionals, but only because of years of work by the DeepMind company, headed by chess player Demis Hassabis!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35420579
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35420579
Re: Computer Go
It is extraordinary that the European Champion was beaten by a machine.Andy Price wrote:A computer has just beaten a Go professional 5-0 in a match.
Our Go playing counterparts may be needing some advice soon
about measures to prevent cheating, although I'm sure the Go
world is much more gentlemanly than our game??
Note that the computer takes an entirely different approach to playing Go than to playing chess.
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Re: Computer Go
I was just reading the paper describing it, and it really is striking just how different it is!
There's a bit in where they mention winning 85% of their games vs a leading open source program while doing no search at all. Basically equivalent in chess terms to just using the evaluation function to pick the best move. Almost shockingly human really
(They do do standard search as well, but they're vastly less dependent on it - the search space is far too large for that sort of technique to work well.).
It would actually be fascinating to see what this sort of approach produced if they turned it on chess. No 'need' for it of course - and it might not work as well anyway - but it'd be so different to modern engines.
There's a bit in where they mention winning 85% of their games vs a leading open source program while doing no search at all. Basically equivalent in chess terms to just using the evaluation function to pick the best move. Almost shockingly human really
(They do do standard search as well, but they're vastly less dependent on it - the search space is far too large for that sort of technique to work well.).
It would actually be fascinating to see what this sort of approach produced if they turned it on chess. No 'need' for it of course - and it might not work as well anyway - but it'd be so different to modern engines.
Re: Computer Go
Since there are so many reasonable-looking candidate moves in Go, I wonder how human players go about selecting them and how many they consider for further analysis?MartinCarpenter wrote:I was just reading the paper describing it, and it really is striking just how different it is!
They do do standard search as well, but they're vastly less dependent on it - the search space is far too large for that sort of technique to work well.
Would it be a similar process to a Grandmaster choosing a chess move?
(I don't play Go at all).
Re: Computer Go
Here's an American take on it -
http://www.usgo.org/news/2016/01/alphag ... i-advance/
http://www.usgo.org/news/2016/01/alphag ... i-advance/
It could be better to go at that from the point of view of checkers (draughts) rather than chess.Since there are so many reasonable-looking candidate moves in Go, I wonder how human players go about selecting them and how many they consider for further analysis? Would it be a similar process to a Grandmaster choosing a chess move?
Re: Computer Go
There are players who just play shapes - what looks like a good shape, without calculation. You can play quite reasonably just playing bamboo joints , hanes, one point jumps, avoiding empty triangles etc etcClive Blackburn wrote:Since there are so many reasonable-looking candidate moves in Go, I wonder how human players go about selecting them and how many they consider for further analysis?MartinCarpenter wrote:I was just reading the paper describing it, and it really is striking just how different it is!
They do do standard search as well, but they're vastly less dependent on it - the search space is far too large for that sort of technique to work well.
Would it be a similar process to a Grandmaster choosing a chess move?
(I don't play Go at all).
I am a really bad Go player though.....
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Re: Computer Go
Looks like a major advance - give the computer two or three stones handicap and it might even come close to beating the very top players in the world
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Re: Computer Go
Well they're going to try it vs the WC Doubt the first effort will come off.
I was just thinking about how disturbingly(?) effective this general sort of approach could be if turned on poker/bridge. Typically its been very hard to model humans but there's now a quite vast quantity of data out there in terms of how humans (mis)play those games online......
Doubt if anyone will bother for bridge though.
I was just thinking about how disturbingly(?) effective this general sort of approach could be if turned on poker/bridge. Typically its been very hard to model humans but there's now a quite vast quantity of data out there in terms of how humans (mis)play those games online......
Doubt if anyone will bother for bridge though.
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Re: Computer Go
There is a GO tournament along side the Frodsham Chess Congress , Saturday 6th Feb
http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8079
http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8079
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Re: Computer Go
Sadly, I shall not be attending Frodsham this year because of other commitments, but in previous years, though not taking the byes needed to enter the GO, I have boldly entered their room and been treated to between-rounds freely given introductory tuition. So anyone wanting to sample this game would be well-advised to visit Frodsham.
Re: Computer Go
The DeepMind program will challenge the Go world champion over 5 games, live on YouTube in March.
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... ive-stream
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... ive-stream
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Re: Computer Go
Expected to lose I think, but I guess Google could always loan it a spare data center or two.....