Rapidplay game: both digital clocks reach 00:00

[JustinHorton]

In online blitz (on ICC), the server calls the flag, not the player. It seems perfectly reasonable to me, if not the world's arbiters, to apply the same convention to over the board chess and discard the fudge "draw with both flags down" which was needed because analogue clocks didn't have a means of indicating the first flag fall.

This is essentially my view.

[Martin Benjamin]

I apologise for wandering slightly from the original question, but how does one reset the clocks if someone wrongly presses a digital clock in a game with a time control of (say) 40 moves in 90 minutes plus extra 30 minutes at move 40 with a 30 second increment? One would think this would never happen between experienced players, but I have seen it done very occasionally. Usually, someone has wandered away after moving, and on returning to the board, has pressed the clock, perhaps absent-mindedly thinking that they forgot to press their clock before walking off and it is still the opponent's move. Sounds strange, but I have seen this done once even by a titled player. Makes negligible difference with an analogue clock, but it must mess up a game with a digital clock, particuarly if someone is short of time. The closest situation I have seen was in an evening league game where a digital clock display vanished during a time scramble and then reappeared with both clocks reset to original times. Fortunately, both players were sufficiently experienced and gentlemanly to come to an agreement about how to proceed, but it could create an intractable problem if there is a lack of goodwill.

[Stewart Reuben]

The Laws do not cover internet chess. They only cover over the board play.
There are still many games played with analogue clocks. It is perfectly reasonable to argue that having just one rule for all types of recognised clocks makes the regulations shorter (true) and simpler.
It is also perfectly reasonable to argue more complex rules would be better.

In response to Martin's question about incorrect pressing of the digital clocks. It is harder to set them correctly when a mistake has been made, but it is possible. When you use the move counter, it is of course even more difficult. I had a game in South Africa where a player claimed a draw by repetition. It was incorrect. I suggested to the opponent it would be better not to bother to change the times on the clocks as it was not going to be important. He insisted, so I changed them. From 1 July that rule becomes simpler.

In the Philippines in the Olympiad I saw somebody press his mechanical clock without undue violence. The minute hand then span around and around the clock. Neither player was perturbed. When it finally came to rest, I said to the other player, 'Ah, you've lost 37 times.' We then got another clock and adjusted the times as best we could.

In earlier days of the DGTs they were less reliable. Thus, I used to go around every hour and note the times of both players and make certain the total was correct. Thus there was a record you could refer back to if the display vanished. DGT XL is much more reliable, I am too lazy to bother, and, anyway, never an assistant arbiter. With digital boards you have the times approximately.

As equipment gets more technically complex, one becomes more and more reliant on it not breaking down.

Stewart Reuben

[David Sedgwick]

On a separate point FIDE rule B8 states for rapidplay

To claim a win on time, the claimant must stop both clocks and notify the arbiter. For the claim to be successful the claimant's flag must remain up and his opponent's flag down after the clocks have been stopped.

Has anyone seen any claim ever been made in that way in Rapidplay ?

Yes, on a number of occasions when I have been the arbiter.

In my experience most players do stop the clocks in the prescribed manner in order to make the claim. When I'm present at the board for one reason or another, the claimant tends to gesture in my direction - a form of notification.

When I conduct arbiter training courses, I always stress that, in a game conducted according to the normal Laws of Rapidplay, the arbiter is not allowed to make use of the information shown on an electronic clock indicating which flag fell first. I'm pleased that Mike Gunn, who is a former trainee of mine, had the opportunity to display his knowledge of the point.

Some years ago I was the arbiter at a Rapidplay Challenge Match between Jonathan Levitt and Murugan Thiruchelvam. The organisers supplied a Saitek clock. I tested it before the start of play and discovered the problem mentioned up thread. I then asked the players if they would agree to the match being played on the basis that I would point out a flag fall. Both were happy with this.

Everything else that I might have said has already been covered by Stewart Reuben.

[Roger de Coverly]

the arbiter is not allowed to make use of the information shown on an electronic clock indicating which flag fell first

The "players" case is that is a silly rule which was only needed because no-one ever devised a mechanical clock with a "who fell first" mechanism.