Page 1 of 2
On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:43 am
by Steven DuCharme
BLACK MOVED FIRST
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:58 am
by Michael Farthing
'white' and 'black' are notional ideas (a bit like North South East West in bridge).
If you had a chess set with a wooden coloured side and a red coloured side they's be no problem so why not a chess set where the white bits are painted black and the black bits painted white?
I bet that's what's going on: if the kings and queens
appear to be the wrong way round that will be the explanation.
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 12:38 pm
by Jon Mahony
In an episode of Monk entitled “Mr Monk and the Genius” Monk’s plucky girl sidekick sits down to play a game with an arrogant young GM on a park chess table, the girl sits behind black and moves first, opening with 1.f5, the GM responds by saying “Birds opening! like I haven’t seen that 10 times today!” Obviously he hadn’t seen it enough
Later on the baddie of the story (an evil GM who had planned the perfect murder of his wife, sigh
) Says "Ah Mr Monk, I was just reminiscing over my victory against Spassky" and on the board goes 1.e4, e5 2.Qh5, d6 3.Bc4, Nf6 4.Qxf7# you know what that episode needed... A CHESS CONSULTANT!!!
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 1:22 pm
by Matt Mackenzie
As chess history afficionados will doubtless know, White moving first only became mandatory sometime in the C19th.
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:31 pm
by Michael Farthing
For those that have been reading the Nick Chess v Stewart Chess thread we have here a perfect example where a law (that white moves first) could be abolished and not provoke any other rule change, nor indeed any change to chess theory (though reading the theory would require a change of all the ranks in algebraic notation - a powerful argument for returning to the descriptive system which would still work perfectly).
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 9:50 pm
by Steven DuCharme
Matt Mackenzie wrote:As chess history afficionados will doubtless know, White moving first only became mandatory sometime in the C19th.
hmmmmmmmmm
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:25 pm
by Kevin Thurlow
I have been assisting with chess at a school. One 9-year-old asked why white always moved first, as it seemed unfair. I said it was just the way it was done and wasn't supposed to mean anything. I got the impression that this wasn't convincing.
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:15 pm
by Roger de Coverly
Kevin Thurlow wrote: One 9-year-old asked why white always moved first, as it seemed unfair.
A more nuanced answer would be that the player who moves first has the King to the right of the Queen and that that Queen's square was the same colour as the Rook to the right of the King. Do anything else and you destroy spatial awareness of the x and y squares, where x and y denote a distinct colour or pattern.
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:32 pm
by John McKenna
I really liked the
The Odd Couple, both the TV series (with Klugman & Randall) and the movie (starring Matthau & Lemon).
Here's an odd-couple exchange -
(In the pub after the club, discussing team captaincy, in general, and an old match in particular...)
C, "... What colour was he, Black or White?"
J, "He was a mixed-race South African."
C, "I meant which pieces did he have?"
J:
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 1:15 am
by Stewart Reuben
Kevin Thurlow > One 9-year-old asked why white always moved first, as it seemed unfair. I said it was just the way it was done and wasn't supposed to mean anything. I got the impression that this wasn't convincing.
Surely the answer is that we try to give, as close as possible, an equal number of whites and blacks to each player. It is not imortant what colour the pieces are, what matters is that the player first to move has an advantage.
When he gets stronger, you can point out that the chess board and set don't really exist.They are just there to help players think. If he doesn't understand that, direct him to 3.6 of the Laws abou how the knight moves.
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 8:21 am
by Kevin Thurlow
Thanks for the suggestions.
"Surely the answer is that we try to give, as close as possible, an equal number of whites and blacks to each player. It is not important what colour the pieces are, what matters is that the player first to move has an advantage. "
I could try that - the players are not playing tournaments yet, most are really beginners, but are at least enthusiastic.
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 1:56 pm
by MJMcCready
Correct me if I'm wrong but in Anderssen V Kiersky (sic?) black moved first. 1851 i think but the law come into full force around 1883 (again off the top of my head), anyway it doesn't matter to players sub 2000elo who moves first.
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 2:05 pm
by Matt Mackenzie
MJMcCready wrote:Kiersky (sic?)
I presume you mean Lionel Adalbert Bagration Felix Kieseritzky?
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 2:17 pm
by MJMcCready
erm, possibly, its just off the top of my head but I remember reading the immortal game started with black but this is rarely annotated, I could be wrong, not attempting to google.
Re: On last night's Odd Couple episode...
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 3:09 pm
by Ian Kingston
The Oxford Companion to Chess (1st edn) has this under the entry for 'First move':
FIRST MOVE, the single-move that begins the game, made by White in modern chess. At one time players drew for colour and again for the right to move first. In the BOURDONNAIS-McDONNELL matches of 1834 each player had the same colour throughout, and the right to make the first move changed only after a game had been won. In the London tournament 1851 players had the same colour throughout any one match, each having the first move in alternate games.
Black was supposed to be the lucky colour, and in 1835 G. WALKER suggested that White (by way of compensation) should have the first move, a practice that later became general. In his column in Bell's Life he reversed the colours when necessary so that White always moved first, now the usual custom when games from early times are published.