English Chess Forum

I just wanted to congratulate the Yorkshire County Teams for their success this weekend.

A fitting tribute to the strength in depth of the Yorkshire leagues.

Yorkshire really is a great place to play chess with many strong evening leagues in Sheffield, York, Bradford, Leeds, Hull, Huddersfield and Calderdale. There are also several good congresses such as Doncaster, York, Huddersfield and Bradford (I for one though think there is still scope for some more congresses in the region- Leeds is crying out for someone to organise a tournament!). Not to mention the Yorkshire Saturday leagues with all of their history - Woodhouse Cup, I.M Browne and Silver Rook competitions.

Another great success this season has been the promotion of White Rose 2 to Divsion 2 of the 4NCL.

I would also like to congratulate the YCA on their work over the past season.

All in all a great year for Yorkshire chess with many exciting projects on the go in a county that is well run by hardworking, dedicated and down to earth chess enthusiasts.

Yes indeed.

Like Keith said, there are a lot of underrated players here.

The Yorkshire grader seems to be doing his best to help that cause by leaving out some of my winning games, lol. Will deal with that tomorrow.

But yes, Yorkshire does has a lot of strong players- who are not recgosnied mainly.

Agreed. The question really is why Yorkshire had not come closer before now to regaining the title they last won in 2000. In BCM at the time, I wrote that, given the size of the county, they had the potential to dominate the Open section. And yet their strength never really dipped during their nine year oasis.

One partial explanation is that Northern county chess then managed to get even worse such that only they and Lancashire - the finalists this year! - were left in the NCCU zone, and since there is a rule which bars anyone from qualifying for the KO stages if they had come last in their own zone, this meant that for a while there could only be one NCCU qualifier. I guess that must have explained at least a couple of Yorkshire's reverses.

I am not sure how that problem has been resolved, in fact. Presumably some third Northern county has done both Lancashire and Yorkshire a favour, by agreeing to play alongside them, thus restoring two qualifying places to the zone.

Jonathan Rogers wrote:Agreed. The question really is why Yorkshire had not come closer before now to regaining the title they last won in 2000. In BCM at the time, I wrote that, given the size of the county, they had the potential to dominate the Open section. And yet their strength never really dipped during their nine year oasis.

One partial explanation is that Northern county chess then managed to get even worse such that only they and Lancashire - the finalists this year! - were left in the NCCU zone, and since there is a rule which bars anyone from qualifying for the KO stages if they had come last in their own zone, this meant that for a while there could only be one NCCU qualifier. I guess that must have explained at least a couple of Yorkshire's reverses.

I am not sure how that problem has been resolved, in fact. Presumably some third Northern county has done both Lancashire and Yorkshire a favour, by agreeing to play alongside them, thus restoring two qualifying places to the zone.

That's not the explanation, Jonathan.

Prior to 2008-09, a Union was entitled to make one nomination for each Division as of right, two if they had a qualifying competition comprising three or more teams, and three if they had a qualifying competition comprising seven or more teams.

For 2008-09, the rules were changed so that a Union could make two nominations as of right and three if they had a qualifying competition comprising five or more teams.

A primary motivation for the change was to enable both Yorkshire and Lancashire to play in the National Stages of most Divisions, as both were clearly amongst the strongest teams in the country.

The SCCU also benefited, as we were entitled to nominate three teams rather than two in all Divisions. Unfortunately, when our nominees came up against teams flying white or red roses, the latter usually prevailed.

Roll on 2009-10.

Jonathan Rogers wrote:Agreed. The question really is why Yorkshire had not come closer before now to regaining the title they last won in 2000. In BCM at the time, I wrote that, given the size of the county, they had the potential to dominate the Open section. And yet their strength never really dipped during their nine year oasis.

One partial explanation is that Northern county chess then managed to get even worse such that only they and Lancashire - the finalists this year! - were left in the NCCU zone, and since there is a rule which bars anyone from qualifying for the KO stages if they had come last in their own zone, this meant that for a while there could only be one NCCU qualifier. I guess that must have explained at least a couple of Yorkshire's reverses.

I am not sure how that problem has been resolved, in fact. Presumably some third Northern county has done both Lancashire and Yorkshire a favour, by agreeing to play alongside them, thus restoring two qualifying places to the zone.

Hi Jonathan,

Now I'm more a chess fan than player really... but here are my quick thoughts.

Yorkshire is the biggest county and does have some strong players. In fact, I believe one of the strongest British young players, Gawain Jones, was born in Yorkshire or very close to it. He certainly 'cut his teeth' playing chess there, but now he seems to be in a different country every month.

However... and I've talked with Mr Rudd about this... when was the last time a FIDE rated open or even a FIDE rated event actually took place in Yorkshire??

I think there was the 'Jorvik Masters' in around 2003 and the British Championships in 2001 - but apart from that there has been very little FIDE rated games in Yorkshire at all.

Basically we need more of that, more sponsorship, more money (and the moon on a stick).

We have still got young good players though, and I think they will improve. Personally I'm on the edge of whether to play chess seriously this season or stick to my (newly found but with actual money) poker proffession.

The last British Championship to take place in Yorkshire was in 2004 (Scarborough; the same venue as 2001 and 1999). I don't know the last time Yorkshire hosted a FIDE-rated event other than the ones you mentioned, though.

Question: If someone in Yorkshire was willing to look at hosting a FIDE rated event in Yorkshire in 2010 (say in Leeds for example) then what would be required above and beyond what goes into organising any normal ECF rated congress? (Venue, arbiters, organising entries etc, etc) i.e. What are the additional stipulations for hosting a FIDE rated event and how would one get it rated by FIDE? Do you have to speak with FIDE directly? Is there anyone at the ECF we should speak to?

David, Thanks for explaining why both Lancashire and Yorkshire now qualify. I had hoped for a positive reason - that another Northern county might be interested in competitive chess at a high level - but agree that all the same, both counties should be eligible to compete in the KO stages. However, I was broadly right to suggest that Yorkshire's chances in the years between 2003-2008 were probably hindered by the former restriction that only it or Lancs could qualify, and not both, whereas (say) the top three SCCU teams would all qualify.

Even so, I find it impossible to agree that the SCCU has ever done very well out of the arrangements for the KO stages, at least as far as the Open is concerned (but perhaps it is different when one looks at the wider picture). It seems to me that the big beneficiaries in the Open, by some distance, over the years has been the MCCU. But that is a subject for another thread ....

I remember some all play all events in Yorkshire in late 2000 or 2001 - perhaps that was the Jorvik masters that Mark referred to.

Gawain Jones certainly came to prominence as a Yorkshire player when he was nine or ten. Now that white rose have found some money for their 4NCL team, he plays for them (when he is in the country at all).

Unfortunately despite this clear intelligence shown by the county Chess team, it does not transpose in to politics

Ben

FM Jack Rudd wrote:The last British Championship to take place in Yorkshire was in 2004 (Scarborough; the same venue as 2001 and 1999). I don't know the last time Yorkshire hosted a FIDE-rated event other than the ones you mentioned, though.

Lol Jack got it bang on- putting my Yorkshire memory to shame.

Apart from the Jorvik tournament since then I certainly can't remember any FIDE rated events.

Andrew Wainwright wrote:Question: If someone in Yorkshire was willing to look at hosting a FIDE rated event in Yorkshire in 2010 (say in Leeds for example) then what would be required above and beyond what goes into organising any normal ECF rated congress? (Venue, arbiters, organising entries etc, etc) i.e. What are the additional stipulations for hosting a FIDE rated event and how would one get it rated by FIDE? Do you have to speak with FIDE directly? Is there anyone at the ECF we should speak to?

I'm no expert on this but I don't think it's TOO much more complicated than an ECF rated congress. I think there are a few extra fees for FIDE to rate the game, and a couple of other hoops to jump through, but officials at ECF could help with this.

Having said that would probably take a lot of time and effort to organize.

As a Yorkshire exile I add my congratulations. Hope it rubs off on the cricket team....

Andrew Wainwright wrote:Question: If someone in Yorkshire was willing to look at hosting a FIDE rated event in Yorkshire in 2010 (say in Leeds for example) then what would be required above and beyond what goes into organising any normal ECF rated congress? (Venue, arbiters, organising entries etc, etc) i.e. What are the additional stipulations for hosting a FIDE rated event and how would one get it rated by FIDE? Do you have to speak with FIDE directly? Is there anyone at the ECF we should speak to?

There used to be documents on the ECF website which explained this, but like many other people I often can't find things on the new site. (If anyone finds the information to which I refer, please could he or she post a link.)

You make the arrangements with Ray Ryan Foster, the ECF International Rating Officer.

In essence, you have to:
a) arrange to have the tournament registered with FIDE;
b) ensure that all English players are ECF members;
c) submit the results in a prescribed format;
d) pay the relevant fees (£2-£3 per player for a weekend Swiss).

If you're planning an International Title Tournament rather than merely a FIDE Rated event, you have to have the tournament controlled by an International Arbiter or a FIDE Arbiter and you have to ensure that you have the correct mix of players to provide the opportunity for title norms. The latter does require a fair amount of planning.

For a recent example of what can be done, see the thread elsewhere in this section about the Big Slick International.

Jonathan Rogers wrote:However, I was broadly right to suggest that Yorkshire's chances in the years between 2003-2008 were probably hindered by the former restriction that only it or Lancs could qualify, and not both, whereas (say) the top three SCCU teams would all qualify.

Even so, I find it impossible to agree that the SCCU has ever done very well out of the arrangements for the KO stages, at least as far as the Open is concerned (but perhaps it is different when one looks at the wider picture). It seems to me that the big beneficiaries in the Open, by some distance, over the years has been the MCCU. But that is a subject for another thread ....

I would agree that the arrangements that applied prior to 2008-09 were indeed somewhat favourable to the MCCU at the expense both of the SCCU and of Yorkshire and Lancashire. I feel that the present arrangements are distinctly fairer.

I should mention that it was Cyril Johnson himself who initiated the changes.

Under the old rules, the MCCU had 3 Open places for our 8 competing teams

Under the new rules, we get the same

How exactly were we benefiting?

Under the old rules, Lancs and Yorks had 1 place between them - to get 2, they merely had to admit G Man to the NCCU - now that incentive has been lost