LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

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Matthew Peat
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LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by Matthew Peat » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:24 pm

Spot the difference

LCC Fide Open Entry Form 2015
Prize Fund (Guaranteed): 1st £5,000, 2nd £3,000, 3rd £2,000, 4th £1,000, 5th - 8th £500 each.
Rating Prizes: 2201-2300 £250, £150, £100 2000-2200 £250, £150, £100 < 2000 £250, £150, £100.
Unrated: £150, £100.
Junior Prize: £250, £150, £100 Women’s Prize £250.

LCC Fide Open Entry Form 2016
Prize Fund (Guaranteed): 1st £7,500, 2nd £5,000, 3rd £2,500, 4th £1,500, 5th £1,000, 6th - 10th £500 each.
Rating Prizes: 2250-2349 £250, £150, £75, 2150 - 2249 £250, £150, £75, 2050 - 2149 £250, £150, £75
Top English Juniors £500, £250, £100
Top English Women £500, £250, £100
Junior Prizes £500, £250, £100
Women’s Prize £500, £250, £100.

Some commendable new categories and increases in prize money, but does rather suggest that those players rated under 2050 are no longer welcome as they no longer have a chance to win any sort of prize (unless they finish in the top ten!).

I noted that approximately 100 of the 350 players who played in the 2015 LCC Fide Open were U2050. Would it be correct for the organizers to accept entry fees (which are considerable) from a similar number of players without returning anything at all to these players in the form of a prize fund? I note that U2050 players and unrateds are even charged an extra £50 to enter than those over 2050.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:35 pm

Title-norm tournaments don't particularly want U-2050 players, no, and certainly not to the extent of 30% of the field being U-2050. They aren't usually realistic norm-seekers themselves, and their low ratings make it harder for their opponents to achieve title norms.

Ian Thompson
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Re: LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by Ian Thompson » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:46 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:Title-norm tournaments don't particularly want U-2050 players, no, and certainly not to the extent of 30% of the field being U-2050.
The lack of a prize reserved for these players may not make much difference to entries as anyone under 25 gets free entry (and, in any case, I think most amateur players probably decide whether or not to enter a tournament based on the cost of playing, not the prize money).

Matthew Peat
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Re: LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by Matthew Peat » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:58 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:Title-norm tournaments don't particularly want U-2050 players, no, and certainly not to the extent of 30% of the field being U-2050. They aren't usually realistic norm-seekers themselves, and their low ratings make it harder for their opponents to achieve title norms.
So why not restrict entry to those rated 2050 and over?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:06 am

Ian Thompson wrote: The lack of a prize reserved for these players may not make much difference to entries as anyone under 25 gets free entry (and, in any case, I think most amateur players probably decide whether or not to enter a tournament based on the cost of playing, not the prize money).
It's something of a kick in the teeth for those of us who wild carded in the British under 16 otherwise known as the British Championship.

Perhaps I should sandbag the Hastings U 2040 as an alternative.

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Re: LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:00 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:It's something of a kick in the teeth for those of us who wild carded in the British under 16 otherwise known as the British Championship.
You've lost me on this comment. The British Championship had prizes for all standards of players, albeit that the prize for players rated under 2000 was less than their entry fee and that for players rated 2000-2149 was only equal to their entry fee.

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Re: LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:05 am

Ian Thompson wrote: You've lost me on this comment.
Such was the field of juniors in the lower half of this year's British, that my score expectation against the ratings I faced was 6.5 from 11. As I only made 4/11, I lost 50 points, dropping from 2075 to 2025 which is below the prize limit at the London Classic.

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Re: LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:43 am

Matthew Peat wrote:but does rather suggest that those players rated under 2050 are no longer welcome as they no longer have a chance to win any sort of prize (unless they finish in the top ten!).
The whole entry form is at http://www.londonchessclassic.com/festi ... events.htm

Whilst not banning U2050 from the Open, and juniors would have free entry, the lack of any prize for U2050 is presumably intended as a hint that such players should enter the weekend U2050 and the weekday U2050 which parallel the Open with the exception of the additional round on the Sunday morning.

Presumably there will be British Championship places available in the Open and the Open weekender, the entry form is silent on this.

Whilst inviting early entry, I didn't notice any statement about which rating list would apply for those around a cut off.

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Re: LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:51 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:Presumably there will be British Championship places available in the Open and the Open weekender, the entry form is silent on this.
It says "The three highest placed eligible players in the FIDE Rated Open not already qualified will qualify for the 2017 British Championships."
Roger de Coverly wrote:Whilst inviting early entry, I didn't notice any statement about which rating list would apply for those around a cut off.
It says December 2016 ratings will be used (http://www.londonchessclassic.com/festival/lcc_t&cs.htm).

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Re: LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:11 pm

Ian Thompson wrote: It says December 2016 ratings will be used
I read that in the context of ratings used for pairings. If entering before the early entries deadline of mid October, the latest available ratings would be end September. With the implicit encouragement of borderline players to sandbag the U2050, it's useful to know the acceptance criterion.

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Re: LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:19 am

Attempted exclusion of players under 2050 appears to be a deliberate policy decision, supposedly to improve Norm chances. I don't see why players rated under 2050 should be denied the opportunity to play a 9 round tournament. Tournaments in Europe, particularly in the Netherlands would just have A and B sections.

Although there's free entry to under 25s, being in the school term is likely to restrict participation from under 18s. You may still get younger players of 2050 standard with ratings well below that entering even with no prizes. These I would have thought are more damaging to Norm chances than players in the 1900 to 2050 range with ratings reflecting their strength.

I think it a retrograde step.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: LCC Open 2016 - U2050 players not welcome?

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:33 am

The main incentive for players rated under 2050 to enter the Open would be to get a higher standard of opposition and gain more rating points than if they played in other sections. That is a big enough incentive that there will be players of that standard entering, so if the organisers really want to avoid this, they should set a rating limit (but then it wouldn't technically be an Open).

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