Chess/Sport

[Roger Lancaster]

This discussion looks likely to generate more heat than light. I think the point is that, although a civil court has found Mike B in debt to the taxman and accordingly bankrupted him, he hasn't actually been convicted in a criminal court. I suppose one could go on to argue that, since the threshold of proof is higher in a criminal court, it isn't 100% certain that he would be convicted. In that very narrow sense, John is right. However, since it seems that Mike B agrees that he didn't pay VAT when over the VAT threshold, this is an implicit admission of tax evasion and, in the broader sense, Mike T is right.

[JustinHorton]

I think Simon that this goes back to my post on Page 5 of the UKCC thread where I posted a link (You posted immediately below it). The tribunal case of Basman v HMRC in front of Judge Alexander in February 2014. As I said in that post I leave board members to draw their own conclusions having read the judgement

Page 4 on my setup but I assume this is the post referred to.

[Neil Graham]

I think Simon that this goes back to my post on Page 5 of the UKCC thread where I posted a link (You posted immediately below it). The tribunal case of Basman v HMRC in front of Judge Alexander in February 2014. As I said in that post I leave board members to draw their own conclusions having read the judgement

Page 4 on my setup but I assume this is the post referred to.

Yes it is - sorry for that. I have now amended my post - doesn't bode well for my first league match of the season tonight.

[Gary Kenworthy]

i suggest we wind-up this incorrect thread. The process has been ongoing for 3 years or so. The Government still wants its money.
We move on. Experienced former CFOs who correctly post, who know about the subject, should be believed.
rgds GK

[Simon Brown]

Hi Gary

Agreed. Chess is not a sport

Simon (experienced former CFO, currently COO with a CFO reporting to him, who has just agreed a PESM with HMRC)

[Roger de Coverly]

Simon (experienced former CFO, currently COO with a CFO reporting to him, who has just agreed a PESM with HMRC)

I can understand CFO, COO and HMRC, but what's a PESM?

[IM Jack Rudd]

Simon (experienced former CFO, currently COO with a CFO reporting to him, who has just agreed a PESM with HMRC)

I can understand CFO, COO and HMRC, but what's a PESM?

I think it's a Partial Exemption Special Method.

[Alan Kennedy]

As your more learned colleague Alan Kennedy points out,

That is the first time in the 12 years of knowing Michael Truran (OBE) that anyone has suggested I am more learned than him. Thank you - I plan on dining out on the comment. I regret however John that you are incorrect - but it is an illusion that I would like you to perpetuate for the benefit of my ego.

If you want detailed evidence of Mike's academic process I would be happy to provide it in a PM but as Mike's list of academic qualifications is very long I wont bore the forum. We may both be Chartered Accountants but trust me, that is where the comparison largely finishes and I regret I come a very poor second in almost all other respects with the possible exception of my tax and insolvency knowledge and my ability to play exchange chess against junior chess players. These differences are solely down to the different experience and not because I am more learned!

As regards whether Mr Basman has breached the tax law - clearly he has but as the legal process has to all intents and purposes finished and will now run its course your points are largely academic.

As regards kicking a man when he is down bankruptcy is a very harsh place to be and almost any facts or opinions about the case (including my learned (!) posts) are likely to seem callous. that is because most people do not understand how brutal bankruptcy and business can be. The usual advice (if you cant get an annulment or Iva out of bankruptcy) is to keep your head down for a year because anything you earn will in large part be given to the trustee and to may cause you to attract an income payments order - which means financial pain last three years rather than one. (ignoring the adverse credit implications which last at least six years and in some cases forever)

If it is any consolation people do recover from Bankruptcy and financial disaster eg Abraham Lincoln, Henry Ford etc but it is not easy and depends on the attitude of the bankrupt. if they blame others (including HMRC) in my experience then rarely recover. It is better to admit the mistakes and move on. I would also often advise against undertaking phoenix operations - they tend to be a triumph of hope over experience and will often pay less than any job the bankrupt could obtain. I hope that is helpful. The usual comments - this is general advice. if chess players want specfic advice you will have to pay someone other than me as I am not and do not want to be an insolvency practitioner.

Alan

[JustinHorton]

Simon (experienced former CFO, currently COO with a CFO reporting to him, who has just agreed a PESM with HMRC)

If you're a PVT, your duty
Is to salute to LIEUT
But if you brush the LIEUT
The MP makes you KP on the QT

[Simon Brown]

Jack is correct. It's essentially an agreement with HMRC to account for VAT in a way which isn't prescribed by law, applicable when special circumstances apply in the view of the payer. It takes months if not years to agree and requires common sense, VAT knowledge and good reasoning on either side.

I agree with Alan Kennedy, another fellow ACA.

[Alan Kennedy]

I agree with Alan Kennedy, another fellow ACA.

We accountants have to stick together so I am feeling the love. A small point - I am FCA - for the uninitiated this is reward you receive for long (in my case very long) service and not for any skill or ability!

[Gary Kenworthy]

Simon and Alan,
I am not an accountant, but I think I can recognise a good one.
I am also aware of Mike Truran's background. (I first met him on the first round of the 4*NCL - he was my opposite number for Bristol that day. He spoke a lot of sense after that game on what has worked and what does not work in chess in the UK. Very profound, can do attitude.
Unsure on Justin Horton's and John Foley's expertise.

[Alan Kennedy]

Unsure on Justin Horton's and John Foley's expertise.

Your comment reminded my of a comment by my company law lecturer (John Anderson of Caer Rhun hall just before I sat my law exams) i want you to keep a sense of perspective about this exam. There are lots of people who no nothing about Company Law - you can tell them - they are the happy ones!

He then added under his breath as left the lecture theatre "i saw a judge smiling the other day".

Their comments are welcome regardless of the level of expertise. It adds to life's rich pattern. If anyone else apart from John Foley wants to say I am more learned than Mike Truran they can go on my Christmas card list as well! Mike T is current remaining silent on the issue!

[Mike Truran]

Alan

As I said to you earlier by email, you will be dining out for years to come on John Foley's comment about our respective capabilities!

IRYO(and suitably chastened)S

Mike

[Alan Kennedy]

Alan

As I said to you earlier by email, you will be dining out for years to come on John Foley's comment about our respective capabilities!

IRYO(and suitably chastened)S

Mike

Mike - thanks on a differnt matter as we are being nice to each other, as we both failed to get into the arbiter nexus do you think we could form a rival accountant nexus and ask Simon to join!!