Chess Statement Investigation Society

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
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Joshua Gibbs
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Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by Joshua Gibbs » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:37 pm

Hi I read a lot on chess and watch videos on it, and thought it would be fun to create a thread where people can debunk or prove apocryphal stories

I will start

in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNITN5zLQac

Stephen Jones states that Korchnoi thought "anyone who played the Dutch defence him was tantamount to an insult"

Can anyone tell me whether there is any truth to this?
Chess, translation, dealing with the police, programming and almost getting killed or arrested: http://honyakujoshua.blogspot.co.uk/

PeterFarr
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by PeterFarr » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:10 pm

'Chess Notes' by Edward Winter has for many years championed the cause of accuracy in chess writing, perhaps quixotically, but always with rigour. The now discontinued Streatham & Brixton blog also followed a number of specific issues along these lines with enthusiasm.

As for the Korchnoi quote; hard to disprove what someone recently deceased once thought. It's vaguely plausible, as he certainly seemed to enjoy playing against the Dutch, but then he attacked many defences with relish, and defended even more attacks similarly.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:40 pm

One way forward here is to contact the chap concerned and ask what his source is for the claim. If he hasn't got one you need look no further.

However, looking at his website, he may not be easy to contact: there's a form, but I found no email address and neither his Twitter account nor his Facebook appear to have been recently updated.
"Do you play chess?"
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Joshua Gibbs
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by Joshua Gibbs » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:21 pm

I left a comment on the youtube video he hasn't replied as of yet
Chess, translation, dealing with the police, programming and almost getting killed or arrested: http://honyakujoshua.blogspot.co.uk/

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:03 pm

While you're waiting, here's Simon Williams discussing the line, Viktor Korchnoi playing it and some theory.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:31 pm

"One way forward here is to contact the chap concerned and ask what his source is for the claim. If he hasn't got one you need look no further."

But it doesn't necessarily mean the statement was false. I mentioned some analysis by a GM to an opponent and he demanded to know where it was published. I said, "No idea if it has been, he mentioned it to me when he was coaching me." (It was an obscure line, which no sensible person would play...)

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:41 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:"One way forward here is to contact the chap concerned and ask what his source is for the claim. If he hasn't got one you need look no further."

But it doesn't necessarily mean the statement was false.
It doesn't, but it does mean there's no apparent evidence for it.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:02 pm

"It doesn't, but it does mean there's no apparent evidence for it."

Well, there's evidence, but not proof!

You really need the GMs to make these controversial statements in public, not to one individual.

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Joshua Gibbs
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by Joshua Gibbs » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:29 pm

JustinHorton wrote:While you're waiting, here's Simon Williams discussing the line, Viktor Korchnoi playing it and some theory.
He covers it in depth in his killer dutch dvd
Chess, translation, dealing with the police, programming and almost getting killed or arrested: http://honyakujoshua.blogspot.co.uk/

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:25 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:"It doesn't, but it does mean there's no apparent evidence for it."

Well, there's evidence.
I don't think there is, if the person who repeats the story can't say where they got it from. All there is is evidence of a story, not that the story itself has any truth to it.

You can see this with non-existent quotes all the time on the internet.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Joshua Gibbs
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by Joshua Gibbs » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:43 pm

ok whilst i wait for the reply, does anyone know if theres any truth that Tigran Petrosian Favoured knights over bishops??

I have read this in many a place, but dont know if it is true and have never seen an accurate source.
Chess, translation, dealing with the police, programming and almost getting killed or arrested: http://honyakujoshua.blogspot.co.uk/

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:39 pm

Joshua Gibbs wrote: does anyone know if theres any truth that Tigran Petrosian Favoured knights over bishops?
There are a number of Petrosian games on record where he steered for endings with the Knight against a "bad" bishop, one hemmed in by its own pawn chain. Examples are White against the French where a Knight can sit unchallenged on d4, dominating the Bishop on d7 when the pawns are on f7, e6, d5. Also there's the Kings Indian where a Knight sits on e4 after Black has played f5xe4 and the Bishop on g7 is blocked by the c7, d6, e5 dark square chain.

Ray Keene, who is an admirer of Petrosian, would mention the theme when annotating games forty to fifty years ago.

Fischer favoured the Bishop and won a famous ending against Petrosian where he gave up a strong Knight for a blockaded Bishop.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:53 am

I would have thought that one thing (possibly the only thing!) this forum is useful for is checking information. As nobody has come forward to confirm Korchnoi's alleged statement, it is probably not true. It does sound the sort of thing he would say though, as would I.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:24 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:As nobody has come forward to confirm Korchnoi's alleged statement, it is probably not true.
Petrosian is believed to have commented about the Dutch, that if your opponent showed signs of wanting to play the Stonewall Dutch, you should do little to discourage him or her.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Chess Statement Investigation Society

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:56 pm

In Kindermans book on the Leningrad he gives the following quotes:

"One of the openings against which both I and the majority of grandmasters are delighted to play" - Tigran Petrosian

"You can only play the Dutch against patzers...The only good thing about the Dutch is that it provokes your opponent into premature attacks. (or words to that effect)" - Victor Korchnoi

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