Once Upon a Time in a League Match

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:35 pm

This reminds me of a time (this season) when I played a game where the clock was dodgy (or wound down) on one side, and we were well into the game before either of us noticed this. The net result was that my opponent had hardly used any time, and I had used a normal amount of time. I was not sure what to do at this point. I pointed it out to my opponent, but I made the mistake of winding up the mechanism first and by that time there was no real way to confirm which side had had the wound-down clock. So I decided just to play on, and eventually won the game. But if we had gone the full amount of time allowed for the game, we would have gone on about half an hour beyond the other games (this was a London League match at Golden Lane). Still not sure what I should have done. Presumably, if I had pointed out that my opponent's clock was wound down and hadn't been working, then it would have been possible to adjust the clock in such as way as to 'catch up' with the rest of the games, so the total time on both clocks tallied with the time elapsed since the start of the playing session. Has anyone else had this happen to them?

(A worst-case scenario would be where the game was a quickplay finish, and the other players gather round the last board to finish, and notice that the clock has not been working from move one for either player and still shows the starting time... I guess both players would be humorously berated for not realising the clock was not working, and given a new clock and equal amounts of time from whatever was left of the playing session.)

Clive Blackburn

Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by Clive Blackburn » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:54 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This reminds me of a time (this season) when I played a game where the clock was dodgy (or wound down)....
Yet another argument in favour of digital clocks :-)
Are those not normally used in the London League?

Richard Thursby
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Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by Richard Thursby » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:22 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This reminds me of a time (this season) when I played a game where the clock was dodgy (or wound down) on one side, and we were well into the game before either of us noticed this. The net result was that my opponent had hardly used any time, and I had used a normal amount of time. I was not sure what to do at this point. I pointed it out to my opponent, but I made the mistake of winding up the mechanism first and by that time there was no real way to confirm which side had had the wound-down clock. So I decided just to play on, and eventually won the game. But if we had gone the full amount of time allowed for the game, we would have gone on about half an hour beyond the other games (this was a London League match at Golden Lane). Still not sure what I should have done. Presumably, if I had pointed out that my opponent's clock was wound down and hadn't been working, then it would have been possible to adjust the clock in such as way as to 'catch up' with the rest of the games, so the total time on both clocks tallied with the time elapsed since the start of the playing session. Has anyone else had this happen to them?
This happened to me several years ago in the Thames Valley League. In rather intense game against a then up and coming junior, I realised my clock had failed to push up the flag and was about 20 minutes behind (this was the first time round so I hadn't badly overstepped the time limit). We replaced the clock and adjusted my time to tally with what the other boards' clocks showed.

Indeed, one should note the clock times before you start winding them because far too often winding them results in the clock moving, in my experience.

Angus French
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Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by Angus French » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:13 pm

Clive Blackburn wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This reminds me of a time (this season) when I played a game where the clock was dodgy (or wound down)....
Yet another argument in favour of digital clocks :-)
Are those not normally used in the London League?
The London League has a central venue shared by many of its clubs and there analogue clocks are used - perhaps, in part, through fear that if the clocks were digital they would be nicked.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:31 pm

Angus French wrote:
Clive Blackburn wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This reminds me of a time (this season) when I played a game where the clock was dodgy (or wound down)....
Yet another argument in favour of digital clocks :-)
Are those not normally used in the London League?
The London League has a central venue shared by many of its clubs and there analogue clocks are used - perhaps, in part, through fear that if the clocks were digital they would be nicked.
Interesting. I can't remember the last Birmingham League game I played with an analogue clock - home or away.

Nick Grey
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Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:43 am

Unfortunately I have too many bad memories of last season's County semi-finals with a faulty analogue clock and a match captain who was my opponent not recognising that it was faulty.

The good news is that matches with both analogue and digital clocks are generally fine.

Yesterday at a county match some of us arrived at the venue early (having secured 3 players to avoid 3 defaults). The match captain said that they had a problem that one of their players was ill and unable to play and is in possession of the digital clocks. We were more worried that the opposition's most experienced county players would not be playing against us and hoped to see him the next time we played.

We also agreed that with the issues on venue hire length and train issues that having the increment may have given us an issue. There were a lot of relieved players on both sides that we were going to us analogue clocks.

The match was fine and no issues with clocks, and our opponents were very hospitable and deservedly won the match.

Mick Norris
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Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:05 am

We use digital clocks in the MCCU, but don't normally use increments (unfortunately in my view, but I do understand why)
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

NickFaulks
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Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:35 pm

Mick Norris wrote: (unfortunately in my view, but I do understand why)
What is the reason?

Mick Norris
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Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:35 pm

Closing time for the venues
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:42 pm

"On returning, my clock was running but I could not see what had been played. Glancing at my opponent's score sheet confirmed that he had not moved, so I pressed the clock and he didn't react in any way. I assumed that I had just forgotten to press my clock.
This scene was played out several times and every time I returned to the board, my clock was running but no move had been made.
I knew that I was now pressing the button but didn't want to accuse my opponent of anything so I decided to spend more time sitting at the table and await developments.
I didn't have very long to wait, after a few minutes one of the players seated at the next board reached across and pressed my opponents clock button in error! He was very apologetic and agreed that he had probably been doing that from the start of the game."

The same thing happened to me in a county match. I'm quite sure my opponent knew what was going on. There was no arbiter present of course.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:50 pm

Clive Blackburn wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:This reminds me of a time (this season) when I played a game where the clock was dodgy (or wound down)....
Yet another argument in favour of digital clocks :-)
Are those not normally used in the London League?
I once played a game with a digital clock that suddenly went completely blank for no reason at all. I wasn’t sure what to do at that point but fortunately David Sedgwick of this parish happened to be sitting next to me at the time and he just sorted everything out. I was in the habit of recording my time after every move which helped. It also helped that the position wasn’t critical and neither of us were in time trouble - although I remember wondering afterwards what it would have been like had the clock situation been more important.

I agree with your general point though - that analogue clocks are more likely to be problematic. I once had a clock run slowly in a league game. So we replaced it with one fresh out of the home side’s cupboard that was absolutely brand new. That ran slowly on one side too!

Without any evidence at all my opponent simply decided that it was my clock that was running slowly and that when we got our third (!) clock my time should be wound forward half an hour. Needless to say I didn’t agree to this proposed solution which struck me as obviously unfair even if it had been proved it was my clock at fault (which it never was).

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Once Upon a Time in a League Match

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:04 pm

I once had a blanking clock. Fortunately, I write down clock times.

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