When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:53 am

Kevin O'Rourke wrote:I haven’t included the position because I was asking more generally and strategically as oppose to tactics.
The thing is, strategy is highly tied up with the specifics of a position, so the amount of general advice that can be given without seeing a position is very limited.

Thomas Rendle
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Thomas Rendle » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:22 am

I'd definitely like to see the position now - then we can see if the general advice can be matched to the exact position in front of us!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:11 pm

Kevin O'Rourke wrote: Tactics are sometimes a lot easier for weaker players such as myself as oppose to strategy.
Authors will try to convince otherwise, but in practice in many games you just shuffle pieces and pawns to decent squares and await developments. Successful tactical opportunities are more likely to arise with well placed and coordinated pieces. Strategy is sometimes no more than observing who would be better in an ending. If you cannot find anything to do, your position isn't as good as you thought it was. Endgame studies can use the theory of mutual Zugswang, but it can sometimes arise in middle games to a limited extent.

Keith Arkell
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Keith Arkell » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:45 am

Unless there is something wrong with your position, there should always be ways to improve it. If not then you just might be in 'Zugzwang Lite' : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugzwang

Kevin O'Rourke
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Kevin O'Rourke » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:38 am

Nf3 d5
c4 d4
d3 c5
g3 Nc6
Bg2 e5
0-0 Be7
Re1 Nf6
Bg5 h6
Bxf6 Bxf6
Nbd2 0-0
Ne4 Be7
a3 Bf5
e3 Rhb8
Rc1 a6
PxP exd4
Nfd2 Qd7
Nb3 b6
Ne-d2 Rc8
Nf3 Bg4
Qc2 Bd6
Nb-d2 f5
Nh4 Rf6
Qb3 Bc7
h3 Bh5
Nf3 Rg6
Nh4 Rf6
Nh-f3 Rc-f8
Rf1 Qd6
Rc e1 g5
Qc2 R6-f7
b3 Bd8
Nh2 Rc6
N-f3 g4
Pxp Bxp
Nh2= Bh5
Nf3 Rf7
Re2 Rg7
Qc1 Bg6
Nh4 h5
Nh-f3 h4
Nxp Rh7
R2-e1 Ne5
Qc2 Rf8
Rx N BxN
Rd5 Qf6
pxB Qxp
Re1 Qh2
Kf1 Bh5
Nf3

I'm sorry i don't know how to put them into a chess program here at work. I was white. The move b3 is the point of my thread. Didn't know what else to do. Game was a draw as time was very short and i had to bail out.

Mick Norris
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:51 am

Possibly this is it?

Any postings on here represent my personal views

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:02 pm

Thank you! In a line like this, white's thematic pawn break is b4, so as to weaken black's c5-d4 pawn chain. It's difficult to know what to say, because you've positioned your pieces very awkwardly with respect to that break. (Your queen's knight, for example, might have been more actively developed early on to c2 via a3.)

NickFaulks
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:06 pm

At first glance, what I don't understand is why White is happy about this position. I feel he should be concerned for his king.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:16 pm

NickFaulks wrote:At first glance, what I don't understand is why White is happy about this position. I feel he should be concerned for his king.
I concur. You feel as if White is just sitting there waiting to be attacked. Playing through the remainder of the game, the plan seems to have worked as Black didn't really come up with anything and sacrificed or lost a piece for what doesn't look enough.

(edit)


I'd be inclined to think this is a critical position. White, as previously observed cannot do anything, so it's up to Black to organise a break through. Playing .. g4 is going to be part of it, but I would be inclined to suggest that .. h5 needed to be played first (make sure the g5 pawn isn't loose). You then follow up with .. g4, retake with the h pawn if .. hxg4. You then continue with .. f4, provided you've defended the g4 pawn and made sure that Ne4 doesn't do anything immediately harmful. It looks far more fun for Black than White. (/edit)

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:50 pm

Does anyone have examples of middlegame positions that are close to mutual zugzwang? That might be more useful than poring over the game Kevin provided. Though surely White has the obvious plan of doubling rooks on the e-file?

Actually, Keith provided an example earlier. Here is a more direct link to the subsection of that Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugzwang#Zugzwang_Lite

Kevin O'Rourke
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Kevin O'Rourke » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:30 pm

I was a bit cagey in this game due to playing someone better than me and also wanted to play the reti in a match because previously I’ve had my king blown open – reti has a safer king for longer.

Still learning

Keith Arkell
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Keith Arkell » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:02 pm



This is simply a horrible position. I think someone like Ivanchuk or Aronian would make it look like a forced win for Black.

Kevin O'Rourke
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Kevin O'Rourke » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:12 pm

Which move did i first start to go wrong do you think? I must attack more next time.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:32 pm

Kevin O'Rourke wrote:Which move did i first start to go wrong do you think?
It could be as early as move 2 if you don't know your way in the Modern Benoni. As Jack suggested earlier, in the middle game you reach, it's usually necessary to break out with b4. When Black plays .. c5 in such positions, lashing out immediately with b4 can make sense. That's a reversed Benko.

There is a key point when playing 1. Nf3 as to how to meet 1. .. d5. You can reverse a Black system naturally enough, but some work better than others.

Richard Bates
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Re: When your happy with your position and don’t want to move

Post by Richard Bates » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:45 pm

Kevin O'Rourke wrote:Which move did i first start to go wrong do you think? I must attack more next time.
Move 7? Arguably move 3...