Statistics in chess

[Brian Towers]

I do not believe there is a single bridge player in the world who would hold up three fingers to single to an opponent a heart's holding without knowing that they were thereby cheating. Not even Brian Eley (he would do it - but he would know he was cheating).

Run that one past me, again, would you, Michael?
Signalling your heart holding to an opponent is cheating? Really? Stupid? Yes. A quick way to lose? Yes. Cheating? I don't think so.
Signalling your heart holding to a partner, now that's a different matter. Although Reese and Shapiro in 1965 denied it.

[IM Jack Rudd]

I think that using the ECF membership statistics does not give you a very accurate portrait of chess being played in England.

This may well be true, but they and the grading database are by far the best large-scale data we have.

[Adam Raoof]

I think that using the ECF membership statistics does not give you a very accurate portrait of chess being played in England.

This may well be true, but they and the grading database are by far the best large-scale data we have.

Understood - but going by the membership statistics you might think that only boys played junior chess, or that there were no students playing chess! So much chess is going on outside the ECF, and the ECF needs to do more to embrace these developments and encourage them.

[Roger de Coverly]

So much chess is going on outside the ECF, and the ECF needs to do more to embrace these developments and encourage them.

I presume you mean demand payment for individual membership for inclusion in the national grading system.

How much is there outside of the grading system? Some junior chess, the UK Chess Challenge and some inter university events. Much else?

[Michael Farthing]

I do not believe there is a single bridge player in the world who would hold up three fingers to single to an opponent a heart's holding without knowing that they were thereby cheating. Not even Brian Eley (he would do it - but he would know he was cheating).

Run that one past me, again, would you, Michael?
Signalling your heart holding to an opponent is cheating? Really? Stupid? Yes. A quick way to lose? Yes. Cheating? I don't think so.
Signalling your heart holding to a partner, now that's a different matter. Although Reese and Shapiro in 1965 denied it.

Well - your partner is usually opposite you!

[Michael Farthing]

So much chess is going on outside the ECF, and the ECF needs to do more to embrace these developments and encourage them.

I presume you mean demand payment for individual membership for inclusion in the national grading system.

How much is there outside of the grading system? Some junior chess, the UK Chess Challenge and some inter university events. Much else?

The vast majority of chess games are played outside the auspices of the ECF.
Actually, the vast majority of graded chess games are played outside the auspices of the ECF.
Actually, there is a very large number of ECF members who play the vast majority of their graded games outside the auspices of the ECF.

Having said that I don't agree with Adam. The ECF is primarily for over the board chess. I can see no role for it in the world of the internet and suspect that any attempt to get one would simply get the thumbs down.

[Roger de Coverly]

The vast majority of chess games are played outside the auspices of the ECF.
Actually, the vast majority of graded chess games are played outside the auspices of the ECF.
Actually, there is a very large number of ECF members who play the vast majority of their graded games outside the auspices of the ECF.

The ECF doesn't of itself organise very much chess. Through the grading system it knows the basic demographics of those play. What it doesn't directly know is very much about those who play their chess outside of the ECF grading system.

Adam may be referring to chess played on various internet servers rather than over the board. National Federations as well as FIDE have had little success in involvement with these organisations or even in setting up in competition.

[Michael Farthing]

The vast majority of chess games are played outside the auspices of the ECF.
Actually, the vast majority of graded chess games are played outside the auspices of the ECF.
Actually, there is a very large number of ECF members who play the vast majority of their graded games outside the auspices of the ECF.

The ECF doesn't of itself organise very much chess. Through the grading system it knows the basic demographics of those play. What it doesn't directly know is very much about those who play their chess outside of the ECF grading system.

Adam may be referring to chess played on various internet servers rather than over the board. National Federations as well as FIDE have had little success in involvement with these organisations or even in setting up in competition.

Err yes Roger. That was what my post said.

[David Sedgwick]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! David! Where to start?

OK, first off, would you like to borrow my glasses? In the part you quote of my words the word "chess" does not appear. The word "bridge" does. It is all about bridge, not chess.

Like Michael Farthing a few posts later on, I had a senior moment. I have corrected my post.

....

Third, I suspect you may have some slight knowledge of bridge but either your knowledge of its history is scanty or you just couldn't pause for the two seconds necessary to put your brain into gear and consider the irony in my allusions to incidents of cheating.

After nine hard days at the World Senior Team Chess Championships, it's taking rather longer than two seconds for my brain to engage gear.

hold your cards with different numbers of fingers extended to show your heart holding.

I wonder if this could possibly be an allusion to the events of the 1965 Bermuda Bowl where Terence Reese and Boris Shapiro were accused of doing exactly that?

Here's the ironical part, Dave. They were all men! Not a woman in sight. And all this alleged cheating is happening at the highest levels of bridge.

For the record, I did understand the historical references. I once had the opportunity to discuss them with Alan Truscott, albeit only briefly.

One of the accusers was female.

[Stewart Reuben]

Roger >How much is there outside of the grading system? Some junior chess, the UK Chess Challenge and some inter university events. Much else?<

Most chess in the world is played outside any formal arrangements. People simply play against each other. Thus the statistic that about 4 million people in Britain play chess. They can also play on line, in the pub, in their home,on a train, etc. They usually play without a clock and may not even know that such devices exist. They probably don't know the en passant rule. They may set up the game with a black square on the right hand corner.

[Roger de Coverly]

Thus the statistic that about 4 million people in Britain play chess.

The reliability of that size of estimate has been questioned.

http://streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.c ... f-fun.html

Admittedly that queries a 6 million estimate, but as an answer to the question

I generally play chess at least once a year.

, it might even be plausible. Other sports and pastimes could run up equivalent large numbers against the same question.

[Stewart Reuben]

The research was done by an independent organisation TIF or something like that. It is/was a legitimate company. And chess did well against other pastimes such as bridge. Very few people actually play cricket.

[Roger de Coverly]

Very few people actually play cricket.

Those who do, play it in a formal setting with Umpires etc. In that sense there's a direct comparison with League and Congress Chess. If you look in a local newspaper, there are almost invariably more cricket clubs in a county or district than chess clubs. Both may well be suffering from reducing numbers.

[David Robertson]

Very few people actually play cricket.

I used to play cricket. I was one of the four million people in Britain who do (or did!). I once scored 785 not out. It took me two days. And I was only 11 years old. The bowler was my brother, aged 9. I let him bat before it got dark. He scored 3 (and was LBW - yes, he was!). But that's cricket for you. I whacked him at chess too. Much cricket and chess never features in the records. Disappointing in my case: 785 not out was a good knock

[Kevin Thurlow]

" If you look in a local newspaper, there are almost invariably more cricket clubs in a county or district than chess clubs."

I think in Yorkshire a few years ago, there were over 100 cricket leagues! So there were probably more cricket clubs than active chess players.