Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

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JustinHorton
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Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by JustinHorton » Sun May 21, 2017 3:22 pm

So you're not this guy.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun May 21, 2017 4:43 pm

I had the position below as Black in a recent tournament. Black has just won a Knight by queening the a pawn. You can win the c pawn by playing .. Kc5 coupled with the moves Ne8-d6xc4, but this allows White to get g5 and g6 in thereby eliminating the f and pawns. White could then sacrifice the Bishop for the b pawn and ask me to demonstrate theoretical knowledge. There was a thirty second increment, so time wasn't an issue. I did though decide not to attempt to show off, but just played .. Nd7 instead. This enables the Knight to cover g6, thereby keeping the f pawn on the board. My opponent resigned after .. Nd7.


Angus French
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Angus French » Sun May 21, 2017 5:26 pm

JustinHorton wrote:So you're not this guy.
All that effort! I wonder if his opponent was enjoying it so much he didn't make a 50-move draw claim?

Alan Atkinson
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Alan Atkinson » Sun May 21, 2017 6:44 pm

Happened again today at the EPSCA semi finals at Camber Sands: ended when the young player with the two pieces did not managed the win.
AA

Paul Habershon
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Paul Habershon » Sun May 21, 2017 8:28 pm

Never had to do it but during a European Seniors team tournament I attended an excellent lecture by a Croatian FM and coach who demonstrated a key point: post N on d4 and B on b4 (or equivalent squares with board rotated) and the enemy king cannot escape from that corner. He told of a WIM who had failed to achieve the mate. It's worth practising on the ICC training gismo (or equivalent on other sites). The difficulty can be that the computer will play the best defence but you could be thrown by a human's inferior move.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Michael Farthing » Mon May 22, 2017 11:42 am

Alternatively of course you could practice it with an inferior human, which solves that problem. Has the advantage that sometimes they talk about things other than chess :-)

Reg Clucas
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Reg Clucas » Mon May 22, 2017 12:05 pm

Paul Habershon wrote: He told of a WIM who had failed to achieve the mate.
There has been at least one full GM who has failed to achieve the mate!

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Joey Stewart » Mon May 22, 2017 3:19 pm

JustinHorton wrote:So you're not this guy.

He even got a "bonus" 20 odd moves to try and pull that mate off, and I presume would have carried on even longer had the game ended in stalemate. You would have thought that if the game was being live streamed somebody would have noticed that it had gone past 50 moves
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon May 22, 2017 3:27 pm

Reg Clucas wrote:
Paul Habershon wrote: He told of a WIM who had failed to achieve the mate.
There has been at least one full GM who has failed to achieve the mate!
Also, of course, a women's "world champion" :roll:
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon May 22, 2017 3:52 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:You would have thought that if the game was being live streamed somebody would have noticed that it had gone past 50 moves
After 50 moves, it's for the players to claim. At 75, the arbiter can intervene and declare a draw.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Mon May 22, 2017 4:25 pm

Paul Habershon wrote:... during a European Seniors team tournament I attended an excellent lecture by a Croatian FM and coach who demonstrated a key point: post N on d4 and B on b4 (or equivalent squares with board rotated) and the enemy king cannot escape from that corner.
Yup. I know this set-up as "Pandolfini's Lock" as I learned it from one of Bruce's books.

THere's really only that and two other positions you need to know to do BN v K so there's really no excuse for not knowing how. Epishin is one GM who's never found the time to do the study.

I totally agree with your point about practicing against engines. The trouble is they always head for the wrong corner - which is 'correct' but once you've got it there it you just download the solution without having to think too much.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon May 22, 2017 5:35 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Joey Stewart wrote:You would have thought that if the game was being live streamed somebody would have noticed that it had gone past 50 moves
After 50 moves, it's for the players to claim. At 75, the arbiter can intervene and declare a draw.
And pertinently, the player might have been unaware of it being beyond 50 moves, given it was a Rapidplay game, and thus the player probably wasn't keeping score. So the player just keeps playing and makes the claim when he thinks he's about to get mated. No real need to bother until then.

Gordon Cadden
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Gordon Cadden » Mon May 22, 2017 5:51 pm

Remember watching a Rapid Play game at Chess & Bridge on Euston Road, around 1993. Aaron Summerscale had the white pieces, and Dharshan Kumeran had black. Kumeran was running very short on time. Summerscale had this brilliant idea. He swapped off pieces and pawns, leaving Kumeran with just one minute to mate with Knight and Bishop. Summerscales King was in the middle of the board. Amazing to watch, but Kumeran actually mated Summerscale in under one minute. Not a game one could easily forget.

Gareth T Ellis
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Gareth T Ellis » Mon May 22, 2017 10:50 pm

For anyone wanting to learn how, try this:

https://board-games.wonderhowto.com/how ... ss-224671/

Let Grandmaster Alexandra Kosteniuk teach you how to play a game of chess. This chess video tutorial will show you how to checkmate with a Bishop and Knight versus a King.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Why you should learn to mate with bishop and knight

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue May 23, 2017 1:36 pm

Having never, over many years, had to perform this mate I've always argued it was not worth the effort learning. Was reminded of this thread when I found myself with K, B, N + P versus K + R in a casual game at the weekend. My opponent, who was very much aware of my views on this ending, grinned broadly as he sacrificed rook for pawn and proceeded to give a running commentary on my subsequent incompetence although in the end, after much effort, I did have the last laugh.

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