Illegal moves

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Paul McKeown
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Illegal moves

Post by Paul McKeown » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:03 pm

Would someone like to tell me what should happen on an illegal move in
a) blitz play
b) rapid play
c) standard play

I am a Level 1 Arbiter, and hence believe I know what should happen in all three cases. However, in the past few days, I have had a barrage of people telling me that they understand it better. So, advice welcome.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Location: Bideford

Re: Illegal moves

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:26 pm

Blitz with <1 arbiter per game, and rapidplay with <1 arbiter per 3 games: first illegal move immediately loses.

Blitz with at least 1 arbiter per game, rapidplay with at least 1 arbiter per 3 games, standardplay: move must be retracted and a legal move played with the same piece, opponent gets two extra minutes. Subsequent illegal move by the same player loses.

(Of course, this is what happens if the illegal move is spotted immediately. The issue mentioned in the conversation I saw on Facebook concerned an illegal move spotted after-the-fact.)

NickFaulks
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Re: Illegal moves

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:51 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:However, in the past few days, I have had a barrage of people telling me that they understand it better. So, advice welcome.
The first piece of advice would be to keep a copy of the Laws with you, certainly when arbiting and ideally at all times!
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Illegal moves

Post by Paul McKeown » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:01 pm

One should not believe everything one reads on Facebook, Jack!

Paul McKeown
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Re: Illegal moves

Post by Paul McKeown » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:01 pm

Correct, Nick.

E Michael White
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: Illegal moves

Post by E Michael White » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:00 pm

This is a big topic and you are unlikely to get a complete reply. You need to ask :-

a) how many arbiters if any
b) why is the move illegal
c) was promotion involved
d) has the player already been penalised for completing a legal move in an illegal way or other offence which counts as an illegal move
e) did the opponent reply
f) if an illegal move was played but went unnoticed at say move 21 and the same player completed an illegal move on move 41 when both illegal moves were spotted does this count as two illegal moves or does reversion back to move 21 cancel the following illegal move ?

plus others probably that I cant immediately recall

Paul McKeown
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)

Re: Illegal moves

Post by Paul McKeown » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:01 pm

I have no idea why Michael White believes a complete answer impossible.

The FIDE Laws of Chess, applicable from 1 July 2017 concerning illegal moves are as follows:
7.5.1 An illegal move is completed once the player has pressed his clock. If during a game it is found that an illegal move has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated. If the position immediately before the irregularity cannot be determined, the game shall continue from the last identifiable position prior to the irregularity. Articles 4.3 and 4.7 apply to the move replacing the illegal move. The game shall then continue from this reinstated position.
7.5.2 If the player has moved a pawn to the furthest distant rank, pressed the clock, but not replaced the pawn with a new piece, the move is illegal. The pawn shall be replaced by a queen of the same colour as the pawn.
7.5.3 After the action taken under Article 7.5. 1 or 7.5.2, for the first completed illegal move by a player, the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent; for the second completed illegal move by the same player the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
7.7.1 If a player uses two hands to make a single move (in case of castling, capturing or promotion), it shall be considered as an illegal move.
7.7.2 For the first violation of the rule 7.7.1, the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent; for the second violation of the rule 7.7.1 by the same player the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
7.8.1. If the player presses the clock without making a move, it shall be considered as an illegal move.
7.8.2 For the first violation of the rule 7.8.1, the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent; for the second violation of the rule 7.8.1 by the same player the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.

RAPID CHESS
A.4.2 If the arbiter observes an illegal move has been completed, he shall declare the game lost by the player, provided the opponent has not made his next move. If the arbiter does not intervene, the opponent is entitled to claim a win, provided the opponent has not made his next move. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves. If the opponent does not claim and the arbiter does not intervene, the illegal move shall stand and the game shall continue. Once the opponent has made his next move, an illegal move cannot be corrected unless this is agreed by the players without intervention of the arbiter.
A.4.2 applies to rapid play in the case of inadequate supervision, and also applies to blitz play in the case of inadequate supervision.

What I inevitably find funny (in a bad way) is how so many chess players taking part in competitions they claim to take seriously haven't a baldy notion what the Laws actually say.

E Michael White
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Re: Illegal moves

Post by E Michael White » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:20 pm

In addition you need to read :-



During the Conference interpretations and clarifications about the new Laws of Chess, valid from 1 July 2017, were discussed and agreed to be in effect.

The agreed points are the following:

1. By the new laws of Chess four (4) illegal moves are now in effect, according to the articles: 7.5.1, 7.5.2, 7.7.1 and 7.8.1.

2. In Standard chess the player is forfeited in case he completes two (2) of ANY of the above illegal moves.

3. However when there are two (2) illegal moves in one move (i.e. illegal castling made by two hands, illegal promotion made by two hands and illegal capturing made by two hands), they count as one (1) illegal move and the player shall not be forfeited at once (in Standard chess).

4. The capturing of the King is illegal move and is penalized accordingly.

5. In Rapid and Blitz games the Arbiter SHALL CALL the flag fall, if he observes it.

6. In case that the indications are 0.00 in both clocks and electronic clocks are used, the Arbiter has always the possibility to establish which flag fell first, with the help of the "-" indication. Therefore there is always a winner.
In case mechanical clocks are used then article III.3.1 of the Guidelines about games without increment including Quickplay Finishes shall be applied.

7. In case a game with reversed colors will end by normal means (by checkmate, stalemate, resignation or draw agreement, if allowed), before ten (10) moves will be played, then the result stands.

8. In case that a player presses the clock without making a move, as mentioned in the article 6.2.4, it is considered as an illegal move and it is penalized according to the article 7.5.3. and not according to the article 12.9

9. If a player makes a move with one hand and presses the clock with the other, it is not considered as an illegal move and it is penalized according to the article 12.9.

10. In Rapid and Blitz games, if the player asks from the Arbiter to see the score sheet, the clock should not be stopped.



IA Takis Nikolopoulos
Chairman
FIDE Arbiters' Commission

IA Ashot Vardapetyan
Chairman
FIDE Rules Commission

E Michael White
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: Illegal moves

Post by E Michael White » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:18 am

Paul McKeown wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:03 pm
Would someone like to tell me what should happen on an illegal move in
a) blitz play
b) rapid play
c) standard play

I am a Level 1 Arbiter, and hence believe I know what should happen in all three cases. However, in the past few days, I have had a barrage of people telling me that they understand it better. So, advice welcome.
Now Paul you have a bit more reading to do before Jan 1st :-

http://rules.fide.com/

Michael Flatt
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Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Illegal moves

Post by Michael Flatt » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:01 am

E Michael White wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:18 am
Paul McKeown wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:03 pm
Would someone like to tell me what should happen on an illegal move in
a) blitz play
b) rapid play
c) standard play

I am a Level 1 Arbiter, and hence believe I know what should happen in all three cases. However, in the past few days, I have had a barrage of people telling me that they understand it better. So, advice welcome.
Now Paul you have a bit more reading to do before Jan 1st :-

http://rules.fide.com/
Paul,

It has been accepted practice in certain Junior tournaments in England for organisers to be a little more generous to inexperienced younger players since they regard the treatment of illegal moves as rather too severe in Rapidplay games.

EPSCA, for instance, until very recently used only to penalise illegal moves in the last five minutes, should either player's clocks fall below that time at any stage.

At the most recent EPSCA AGM held in September 2017, which I believe you attended alongside myself, it was agreed to apply penalties for illegal moves throughout the game, with a player losing on the third occurrence in a Rapidplay game.

I don't believe that the same concessions apply to Juniors in Standard rate or Blitz games, when the normal rules should be enforced.