Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
-
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:59 pm
Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
In the interest of popular schadenfreude, perhaps this should be restricted to World Champions, GMs and IMs as victims but...
The question is open and about , not necessarily quality games, where a much weaker player wins or draws against a stronger opponent; say a gap of at least 50 points ECF or 400 FIDE. How does this happen?
Penrose v Tal came to mind but Penrose was too good!
The question is open and about , not necessarily quality games, where a much weaker player wins or draws against a stronger opponent; say a gap of at least 50 points ECF or 400 FIDE. How does this happen?
Penrose v Tal came to mind but Penrose was too good!
-
- Posts: 2069
- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:28 pm
- Location: Morecambe, Europe
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
And anyway Penrose used to cheat - he went to bed early the night before a match!
-
- Posts: 5232
- Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
- Location: Millom, Cumbria
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
Karpov's loss to an obscure untitled German in a 1983 (all play all) tournament has to be up there.
Think it has been mentioned on here (and the game posted) before.......
Think it has been mentioned on here (and the game posted) before.......
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
-
- Posts: 21312
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
Arguably experienced players in perhaps the 160 to 210 range are just as good as "average" IMs or GMs in some positions but lack consistency. So 19 moves from 20 will be good, but the 20th will be an absolute howler.
-
- Posts: 1187
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:46 am
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
This one maybe:Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:04 pmKarpov's loss to an obscure untitled German in a 1983 (all play all) tournament has to be up there.
Think it has been mentioned on here (and the game posted) before.......
-
- Posts: 8461
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
I would expect that such occurrences are quite common, happening when the lower rated player produces, on the day, better moves than their opponent. I think I have beaten an opponent 400 rating points above me and I have certainly been on the other end.IanCalvert wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:58 pmThe question is open and about , not necessarily quality games, where a much weaker player wins or draws against a stronger opponent; say a gap of at least 50 points ECF or 400 FIDE. How does this happen?
As for ECF grades, based on games which are in many cases played in the evening and close to quickplay, I imagine 50 point upsets are very common. I have been involved in one each way in the past couple of years, which would no doubt be more except that such "mismatches" are themselves rare.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
-
- Posts: 4826
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Bideford
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
A rating difference of 400 corresponds to an expected score of 92% for the stronger player, so it should happen reasonably frequently.
-
- Posts: 4653
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:26 pm
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
One of my favourite 4NCL examples, partly because the winner really deserved the win (with a 410 rating point difference, so, er, maybe quite infrequent?!): Winkelmann v King, 2008/9
https://chesstempo.com/gamedb/game/2506791
Edit: I originally wrote "loser" instead of "winner". Don't ask.
https://chesstempo.com/gamedb/game/2506791
Edit: I originally wrote "loser" instead of "winner". Don't ask.
Last edited by Jonathan Rogers on Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:59 pm
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
Thanks Jack and others.
500 FIDE rating points difference, with I guess an almost zero expected score, would have been better in my original post.
The question followed a game on Thursday when I drew with a player rated 47( =217- 171) ECF points higher with astonishing ease. I had White, played 1.b3 and we transposed into a Finachetto Grunfeld, D78, which i guess I Knew better than my opponent . There was never more than 0.5 pawn (Fritz15) in it and I held an 2B v 2B ending with symmetric pawns with surprising, to me, ease.
I had expected that someone might mention my belief that such extreme results may well be more common when the weaker player has White. This is separate from a 0-5 ECF point (say) advantage to White but relates to the initiative and control that White is more likely to have after the opening.
500 FIDE rating points difference, with I guess an almost zero expected score, would have been better in my original post.
The question followed a game on Thursday when I drew with a player rated 47( =217- 171) ECF points higher with astonishing ease. I had White, played 1.b3 and we transposed into a Finachetto Grunfeld, D78, which i guess I Knew better than my opponent . There was never more than 0.5 pawn (Fritz15) in it and I held an 2B v 2B ending with symmetric pawns with surprising, to me, ease.
I had expected that someone might mention my belief that such extreme results may well be more common when the weaker player has White. This is separate from a 0-5 ECF point (say) advantage to White but relates to the initiative and control that White is more likely to have after the opening.
-
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:59 pm
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
Doh, 218-171 = 47
-
- Posts: 4653
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:26 pm
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
Allowing draws to count really does make a difference. I daresay that other 170s who are comfortable playing 1 Nf3, b3, g3 or whatever with White must have quite reasonable chances of drawing with 200 + strength players in an evening match.
-
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:59 pm
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
Jonathan
Agreed , thanks.
My game was indeed an evening ( London) league match, I assume without generally much less opponent or opening preparation than is common in tournaments
Agreed , thanks.
My game was indeed an evening ( London) league match, I assume without generally much less opponent or opening preparation than is common in tournaments
-
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:59 pm
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
Replace "without" with "with"
-
- Posts: 10364
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Somewhere you're not
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
-
- Posts: 2226
- Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 6:33 pm
Re: Favourite Rating Upsets Ever: Wins or Draws.
Justin - that's a good one.