In this context, what is an English player? I'm not being pedantic, I genuinely cannot guess whether I would be put in that category. I am a player and I am English, but my federation is BER.Michael Flatt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:17 amEnglish players MUST be members of the English Chess Federation.
Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
-
- Posts: 8453
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
-
- Posts: 1235
- Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:36 am
- Location: Hertfordshire
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
That is the key question.NickFaulks wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:31 amIn this context, what is an English player? I'm not being pedantic, I genuinely cannot guess whether I would be put in that category. I am a player and I am English, but my federation is BER.Michael Flatt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:17 amEnglish players MUST be members of the English Chess Federation.
I undertand it to mean that an "English" player is one who obtained their FIN through the English Chess Federation.
-
- Posts: 21301
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
British Championship (Michael Flatt) wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:17 am
Other players MUST be a member of their national body.
The key point is what the ECF means by this statement and why it believes it to be necessary. FIDE's rating requirement is just that every player should have a FIN. These are issued by National Federations but any number of local rules are possible, falling far short of individual paid for membership in the current English model.
-
- Posts: 1420
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
You beat me to it Nick. The term "English player" is unclear. I guess it needs to be, and most players would expect it to be, "with FIDE ENG registration".
The entry conditions really need to be in 3 parts 1) eligibility such as residence, nationality 2) qualification such as minimum FIDE rating which might depend on age or others 3) player registration which covers membership levels of the ECF and other national bodies. While these 3 are intertwined confusion will arise.
The entry conditions really need to be in 3 parts 1) eligibility such as residence, nationality 2) qualification such as minimum FIDE rating which might depend on age or others 3) player registration which covers membership levels of the ECF and other national bodies. While these 3 are intertwined confusion will arise.
- Matt Mackenzie
- Posts: 5205
- Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
- Location: Millom, Cumbria
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
I think that said user has been banned now?Richard James wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:06 amThe Swedish GM Pontus Carlsson, who is of African descent, received some very unpleasant racist abuse from a chess.com user named funnychess9, who plays under the flag of the Solomon Islands, yesterday. You'll find it on his Twitter feed if you care to look.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
-
- Posts: 1175
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:34 pm
- Location: Twickenham
- Contact:
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
Yes, he has. Quite rightly.Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:09 pmI think that said user has been banned now?Richard James wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:06 amThe Swedish GM Pontus Carlsson, who is of African descent, received some very unpleasant racist abuse from a chess.com user named funnychess9, who plays under the flag of the Solomon Islands, yesterday. You'll find it on his Twitter feed if you care to look.
-
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:44 pm
- Contact:
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
Alex Holowczak and I have reviewed the case in question. Past custom and practice from before the ECF moved to a universal membership system, but which as far as we can see does not seem to be have been formally documented, has been not to require ECF Gold membership for players from or resident in federations other than the ECF that were signatories to the 2007 BICC agreement, but to require ECF Gold membership for English players, including those resident in England. So the player in this case as an English resident was required to take out Gold membership, while players resident in other BICC signatory federations were not. So as far as we can see the decision was entirely consistent with custom and practice at the time.
That said, it is clearly undesirable that the various requirements have not been formalised, and the British Championship entry forms and guidelines have also been less than clear on the matter. The various BICC federations have been working on a new version of the 2007 BICC agreement which we hope to sign shortly and which will properly document the ECF membership requirements for the 2018 British Championships; these requirements will also be made clear in the British Championship documentation.
Xenophobia played no part in this case, and has no part to play in any ECF activities.
That said, it is clearly undesirable that the various requirements have not been formalised, and the British Championship entry forms and guidelines have also been less than clear on the matter. The various BICC federations have been working on a new version of the 2007 BICC agreement which we hope to sign shortly and which will properly document the ECF membership requirements for the 2018 British Championships; these requirements will also be made clear in the British Championship documentation.
Xenophobia played no part in this case, and has no part to play in any ECF activities.
-
- Posts: 21301
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
That is not however a practice applied to any other FIDE rated tournament in England or under English auspices including the 4NCL. Why make the British Championships more stringent?Mike Truran wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:31 pmPast custom and practice from before the ECF moved to a universal membership system, but which as far as we can see does not seem to be have been formally documented, has been not to require ECF Gold membership for players from federations other than the ECF that were signatories to the 2007 BICC agreement, but to require ECF Gold membership for English players, including those resident in England.
-
- Posts: 1235
- Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:36 am
- Location: Hertfordshire
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
The clarification provided by the ECF's Chief Executive Officer is welcome and does confirm that the dispute arose from inadequate information being published regarding Conditions of Entry.
How is an entrant who submitted her application online to have known about the ECF's undocumented 'custom and practice'?
Is there any way that the ECF can compensate the player for what appears to have been unsatisfactory and distressing treatment in the handling of this complaint?
How is an entrant who submitted her application online to have known about the ECF's undocumented 'custom and practice'?
Is there any way that the ECF can compensate the player for what appears to have been unsatisfactory and distressing treatment in the handling of this complaint?
-
- Posts: 1235
- Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:36 am
- Location: Hertfordshire
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
It does appear that in the 2017 British Championship the ECF have not been consistent in their demands for foreign nationals based in England to have ECF Gold membership.
In reviewing details of players competing in the Championship event I have been able to identify three international players, registered to chess clubs in England, who only had Silver membership in the 2017 ECF membership list.
It seems, therefore, that there is substance to the complaint raised by the mother whose daughter was excluded for only having Silver membership. There must have been some way to resolve this matter at the time.
References
2017 results: http://chess-results.com/tnr293939.aspx?lan=1
2017 ecf membership: http://web.archive.org/web/201707160942 ... ership.xls
In reviewing details of players competing in the Championship event I have been able to identify three international players, registered to chess clubs in England, who only had Silver membership in the 2017 ECF membership list.
It seems, therefore, that there is substance to the complaint raised by the mother whose daughter was excluded for only having Silver membership. There must have been some way to resolve this matter at the time.
References
2017 results: http://chess-results.com/tnr293939.aspx?lan=1
2017 ecf membership: http://web.archive.org/web/201707160942 ... ership.xls
-
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:56 am
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
My main problem was, that I did not understand the situation all the time. (Chessplayers are masters in explaining, they can write a book about one chess position. So I did not wait that something can not be explained. )
she must top up her Silver Junior - why - she must top up if she wants to play - why juniors must top up and adults must not - because she is only Silver Junior - why you have different rules for juniors and adults - we have not, the rules are the same, she must top up her Silver Junior - why adults can play and juniors can not, the rules are not the same...
...after all I got an advice send email to ECF executive members and ask them.
Of course, I did not send nothing. If I have official regulars and officer responsible for entry process , I dont need take time to somebody alse.
She was cancelled, but I still did not understand . At the end I wrote about my problem to our captain, and he explained to me, that there are different rules if you play BCh, you must be member of any UK federation and if you are member of ENG, you need to be Gold.
But it was not in the regulation and no Sir did not tell me it no one time. And still, however it would be valid, I still knew player who had not membership in the other UK federation, so it was not valid.
She played other Championships in August and September, so was not problem . If she would be hard crying, I would be more active, of course. But we did not feel happy , because all the time we did not know, what we know now.
So happy end.
And also happy end of 2017.
she must top up her Silver Junior - why - she must top up if she wants to play - why juniors must top up and adults must not - because she is only Silver Junior - why you have different rules for juniors and adults - we have not, the rules are the same, she must top up her Silver Junior - why adults can play and juniors can not, the rules are not the same...
...after all I got an advice send email to ECF executive members and ask them.
Of course, I did not send nothing. If I have official regulars and officer responsible for entry process , I dont need take time to somebody alse.
She was cancelled, but I still did not understand . At the end I wrote about my problem to our captain, and he explained to me, that there are different rules if you play BCh, you must be member of any UK federation and if you are member of ENG, you need to be Gold.
But it was not in the regulation and no Sir did not tell me it no one time. And still, however it would be valid, I still knew player who had not membership in the other UK federation, so it was not valid.
She played other Championships in August and September, so was not problem . If she would be hard crying, I would be more active, of course. But we did not feel happy , because all the time we did not know, what we know now.
So happy end.
And also happy end of 2017.
-
- Posts: 5821
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world
"My main problem was, that I did not understand the situation all the time."
If it is any comfort, many other people have been in that position...
If it is any comfort, many other people have been in that position...