Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:28 pm

"What's all this about? She needed to be gold. She wasn't. Simples.
Are you saying that (a) because she is a junior and (b) because she is a girl the ECF should ignore its own rules?"

Is that aimed at me?

To clarify - I'm saying, the ECF should have the chance to comment on the complaint.

I am stating that ECF has favoured juniors and especially female juniors in the past. British Championship rules favour such players, even if you apply them correctly.

NickFaulks
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:28 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:40 pm
What's all this about? She needed to be gold.
But why did she need to be gold, when others weren't? I don't buy the theory that it's Slovakophobia, but what was the reason?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:47 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:28 pm
I don't buy the theory that it's Slovakophobia, but what was the reason?
It's generally accepted that if you have a non-ENG FIDE "nationality", then you don't need Gold membership as a condition of playing in FIDE rated tournaments organised as ENG including the 4NCL and whether or not you are a "member" of your foreign federation is not usually investigated. The management of the British Championship Congress appear to differ from this, but it's suggested probably correctly that they haven't demanded Gold membership for WLS, SCO or IRL players. You can certainly be on the list of qualifiers without being an ECF member as witnessed by the presence of several inactive ex-champions and titled players.

NickFaulks
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:47 pm

Players from overseas federations took part who do not appear to be ECF members now. Is it possible to check whether they were then?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:58 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:47 pm
Players from overseas federations took part who do not appear to be ECF members now. Is it possible to check whether they were then?
The wayback machine has a snapshot of the ECF site as at 27th June 2017 from which the membership list of the time could be downloaded.
http://web.archive.org/web/201706272159 ... ership.xls

Membership for 2016-17 would have been closed on June 30th. Anyone joining for the first time after that would get a 2017-18 membership which is still current.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:59 pm

The only A Kluckova that I could find on the membership list, grading database & FIDE rating site is:

Ms A Alzbeta Kluckova G32225 308696D Paid Gold (expires 31 Aug 2018)
http://www.ecfgrading.org.uk/new/menu.p ... de=308696D
http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=456608

However, the FIDE rating site lists the player as ENG and born in 1966. Is the official's point of view that the only player with that surname and initial is ENG and must therefore have gold membership?

Michael Flatt
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:10 pm

In the particular case in question it is not clear as to what requirement the player or her parents failed to meet.

With regard to the player being a member of her own Federation, I would have thought that is simply necessary to obtain a valid FIN.
The player (still a junior) was awarded the WFM title in 2016.

There has obviously been some disastrous misunderstanding, at least, and some formal investigation and report is required.

Being a Junior, it would be unfair to name her.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:15 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:59 pm
The only A Kluckova that I could find on the membership list, grading database & FIDE rating site is:

Ms A Alzbeta Kluckova G32225 308696D Paid Gold (expires 31 Aug 2018)
http://www.ecfgrading.org.uk/new/menu.p ... de=308696D
http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=456608

However, the FIDE rating site lists the player as ENG and born in 1966. Is the official's point of view that the only player with that surname and initial is ENG and must therefore have gold membership?
I noticed that as well but resisted the temptation to post on a public forum. Also the grade is rather less than the 180 stated. My guess would be that the database entry is for the author of the post and that the daughter has a different surname.

I don't want to to speculate on what has happened here but it seems to be an administrative issue and certainly not on a parity with the disgusting behaviour described in the post that opened this thread.
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NickFaulks
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:19 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:58 pm
The wayback machine has a snapshot of the ECF site as at 27th June 2017 from which the membership list of the time could be downloaded.
Thanks, that's really helpful. I can't find the name of Dietmar Kolbus, for instance.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:22 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:10 pm
With regard to the player being a member of her own Federation, I would have thought that is simply necessary to obtain a valid FIN.
The player (still a junior) was awarded the WFM title in 2016.
Any player with a rating and a title would already have a FIN. The issue seems to be the ECF demanding that she become a Gold member of the ECF in order to become eligible to play in the British Championship. In its way it's not that ridiculous a stipulation, that a player who isn't ENG,WLS, IRL, SCO, JCI or GCI should have to become a Gold member to take part in a title event if they were qualified by residence rather than birth or citizenship. It isn't in the published conditions though and amounts to a back door method of increasing the entry fee for such participants.

The player isn't too difficult to identify once you realise that mother and daughter don't use the same surname.

NickFaulks
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:37 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:22 pm
In its way it's not that ridiculous a stipulation
It might not be, if applied across the board.
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Michael Flatt
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by Michael Flatt » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:12 am

The British Chess Championship is a FIDE rated event (with the exception of the younger junior sections) and, therefore, any player dissatisfied with the ECF's response (or lack of response) to their complaint would be entitled to escalate the matter to FIDE.

Anyone who believes they have been unfairly discriminated against might also consider legal action under the Equality Act 2010.

NickFaulks
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:03 am

Michael Flatt wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:12 am
The British Chess Championship is a FIDE rated event (with the exception of the younger junior sections) and, therefore, any player dissatisfied with the ECF's response (or lack of response) to their complaint would be entitled to escalate the matter to FIDE.
It is often forgotten that FIDE has a total staff of about ten and services 189 federations, of which the ECF is far from being the largest. They really shouldn't have to get involved in every petty internal squabble.

I am interested in this case because some years ago, when my rating was higher, it was suggested to me that I would be eligible to play in the British even though I was from a foreign federation. I wondered what the rules were then, and still do.

I do not consider it would be racist, xenophobic or abusive for players whose federations are outside the British Isles to be excluded from the British Championships - the clue is in the name. However, some do take part, so are there rules about that?

When they do, are they required to be paid-up ECF members and, if so, of what colour? Are there rules about that?

It seems to me that if the answers to these questions are written down anywhere, then the dispute under discussion, and associated bad feeling, should not have happened.
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Richard James
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by Richard James » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:06 am

The Swedish GM Pontus Carlsson, who is of African descent, received some very unpleasant racist abuse from a chess.com user named funnychess9, who plays under the flag of the Solomon Islands, yesterday. You'll find it on his Twitter feed if you care to look.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Xenophobic abuse in British chess in the post-Brexit world

Post by Michael Flatt » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:17 am

With regards as to how the complaint was dealt with by the ECF I only have the information in this forum thread.

It does appear to me that the transparency of ECF complaint procedure, its effectiveness and the reporting of outcomes is less than satisfactory; thus, complainants can only benefit by knowing how one might pursue the complaint if it isn't properly addressed by the ECF.

The website of the British Chess Championship (http://www.britishchesschampionships.co.uk/) does contain important details of the forthcoming and past events, with the exception of the Entry Form itself.

The regulations do seem to be revised each year.
http://www.britishchesschampionships.co.uk/qualification-regulations-2017/ wrote:Entitlement to Play in the British Championships

Only players who fulfil one of the following criteria shall have the right of entry to the Championship sections of the Annual Congresses:

(a) British Citizenship, or
(b) British Overseas Territories Citizenship, or
(c) Citizenship of Ireland, or
(d) not less than one years continuous ordinary residence in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ending on the 30th June in the calendar year of the Championship in question, or
(e) not less than one years continuous ordinary residence in Ireland ending on the 30th June in the calendar year of the Championship in question, or
(f) not less than one years continuous ordinary residence in the Channel Islands ending on the 30th June in the calendar year of the Championship in question, or
(g) not less than one years continuous ordinary residence in the Isle of Man ending on the 30th June in the calendar year of the Championship in question
http://www.britishchesschampionships.co.uk/conditions-of-entry-2017/ wrote:Conditions of entry 2017

No entries can be accepted except on an official entry form or online at the Championship website. Additional forms can be obtained from the ECF and Championship websites or by contacting the ECF Office with a stamped addressed envelope.

English players MUST be members of the English Chess Federation. Gold membership is required for FIDE-rated events (other than Rapidplay) and Silver for others.
Silver membership is required for Rapidplay. Members should quote their membership number on the Entry Form.
Other players MUST be a member of their national body.