Raymondo

[Matthew Turner]

I think people should look at Wikipedia Raymond Keene - controversies and decide how serious his misdemeanours are. In a career of four decades where he has brought 3 World Championships to London (not sure why you think this is unimportant, Justin) should we really be villifying this guy?

[Alex Holowczak]

I certainly don't question his ability as an organiser of chess events. He's obviously brilliant at it. Obviously the players have huge respect for him, otherwise they wouldn't be playing in London in his tournament at the moment. But his comment on that forum came across as a bit arrogant.

Taking each "controversy" in turn:
Nice Olympiad 1974: Put himself before the team (indeed, his country). That's a strong no-no in my book.
Korchnoi's second: Betrayed an agreement with Korchnoi to make money publishing a book. Korchnoi is playing in London though, so he must have forgiven him.
Miles' second: Seemed more interested in money than chess.
David Levy: Nothing ever proven. Fuss about nothing.
Braingames World Championship: Fuss about nothing.
Plagiarism: You'd like to think he would check beforehand. If he did and used it anyway, then it's foolish.
More plagiarism: Seems ignorant of the matter, rather than addressing it.

These controversies seem to reveal a lot about his character. He certainly seems to be very focused on making money one way or the other, however he can. This is probably why people are paying £5 to watch it online, rather than get the games for free as you can at pretty much every other tournament. He also seems to put himself before others all too often. But the people who know him obviously see past that, and must get along with him fine. He'd probably be able to put forward a series of responses to those controversies if he felt he had to. Wikipedia very much focuses on one side of the story.

[Paul McKeown]

Matthew,

Without wishing to be rude, might I suggest that you go back to the question I wrote earlier in this thread. When you are able to answer it, then post about world championships here. It would make more sense that way; it might even answer your own question about whether or not that was a good thing.

Regards,
P.

[Matthew Turner]

I do not know the answer to you question, but if you do, perhaps you could furnish me with it in a PM?

[Geoff Chandler]

Hi Guys.

I just this saw this on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Chess-Book-Becomi ... %26ps%3D54

The Seller adds:

THIS WAS THE FIRST BOOK WRITTEN BY A BRITISH GRANDMASTER !

This plots the rise of Ray Keene to the rank of Grandmaster and covers a number of topics
that were at the time very contraversial with the British chess public, not least his views on
other strong players.

How does one become a Grandmaster ?
What is it like to play in international tournaments ?
Why, for so long, did British players perform so indifferently ?
Is chess at art, science or sport ?
What is the point of chess at all ?

Currently at £2.19 + £2.50 postage.

This thread was started just after this book was posted.

We have all been had!!

A brilliant piece of advertsing young Jonathan. Well done.

It is infact a good book.

[Paul McKeown]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Chess-Book-Becomi ... %26ps%3D54

It is infact a good book.

Actually it is self-publicising, meretricious and recycled crap. I have it sitting beside me - it was given to me personally by Keene, perhaps he couldn't sell enough copies.

I have finally realised that your posts are simply bait. Either that or you are a loon.

Charmed.

[Ian Lamb]

no book buy raymondo is a good book !Ray keene has done nothing for chess without it benefitting himself and thats a fact.hes only in for himself if he can make a quick buck!

[Matthew Turner]

Paul has now enlighted with the facts, he has clearly expressed his views by copying out the thoughts of others.
People can look at what Raymondo has done, both good and bad and make a judgment for themselves. I think those who have thought about it will come to the conclusion that he is perhaps not as bad as he is sometimes portrayed.

[John Upham]

no book buy raymondo is a good book !

Ian,

I assume you mean "by" rather than "buy" or was it a recommendation not to purchase?

Anyway,

Many of Keene's early works were very good : "Flank Openings" is exceptional (although the "New Edition" was a total rip-off, The Kings Indian Defence co-authored with Barden and Hartston was a milestone at the time, "Nimzowitsch : A Reappraisal" was very good.

So, let us be fair : RDK, in his early days, did write good material.

Does anyone know who writes RDKs column in The Times? Byron Jacobs, Andrew Kinsmann, RDK himself?

[Paul McKeown]

Paul has now enlighted with the facts, he has clearly expressed his views by copying out the thoughts of others.
People can look at what Raymondo has done, both good and bad and make a judgment for themselves. I think those who have thought about it will come to the conclusion that he is perhaps not as bad as he is sometimes portrayed.

Cheers, Matthew, I could hardly write what I thought, as I suspected that you might pass it on. Turns out I'm right.

[Jonathan Bryant]

I certainly don't question his ability as an organiser of chess events. He's obviously brilliant at it. Obviously the players have huge respect for him, otherwise they wouldn't be playing in London in his tournament at the moment.

I'm not sure that's true - I very much doubt that Korchnoi, for example, either respects RDK or has forgiven him.

Incidentally, the idea that Ray's problematic actions as Korchnoi's second amounts to writing a book without permission is somewhat of an understatement to say the least.

[Paul McKeown]

I suppose, registered as I am with the Irish Chess Union, that I shouldn't give a damn whether or not the ECF is brought to the brink of insolvency again and needs to be bailed out again to the tune of five figure sums by David Anderton/David Jarrett and friends. Go on, bring RDK back again into ECF management. Sup with a long spoon.

[Paul McKeown]

no book buy raymondo is a good book !

Many of Keene's early works were very good : "Flank Openings" is exceptional (although the "New Edition" was a total rip-off, The Kings Indian Defence co-authored with Barden and Hartston was a milestone at the time, "Nimzowitsch : A Reappraisal" was very good.

True enough, John, don't think anyone said otherwise.

[Paul McKeown]

I think people should look at Wikipedia Raymond Keene - controversies and decide how serious his misdemeanours are. In a career of four decades where he has brought 3 World Championships to London (not sure why you think this is unimportant, Justin) should we really be villifying this guy?

I think people should go rather further than look at Wikipedia. Perhaps they could try BCM 1987, BCF Yearbook of Chess 1987, David Spanier's writings in the Daily Telegraph, 1987 or Nick Pitt in the Sunday Times 1987. They might question themselves as to the reasons that RDK left his position in the BCF; they might question whether the World Championship 1986 is something that the ECF might care to reprise, if RDK was managing it.

No vilification here, just facts being reported.

[Roger de Coverly]

needs to be bailed out again to the tune of five figure sums

Something that puzzled me when accounts of "The Chess Centre Ltd" were published last year.

In respect of Ernie's specific enquiry concerning the Chess Centre Finances, all I can do is quote the summary 2006 accounts that were set out in Robert Richmond's paper (C7. to the April Finance Council meeting:

Investments 18,952
Debtors 492
Cash at bank 23,107
______
Total assets 42,551
Creditors 11,674
_______
Net assets 30,877
________

Interest and dividends 967
Less expenses 94
___
Profit for the year 873
___

How was it that a dormant company had "creditors" ?

Creditors are people or things that it owed money to.

The Chess Centre Ltd was used as the vehicle (I think) to account for/finance the 1986 match.