FIDE account closed

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Nick Grey
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by Nick Grey » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:19 pm

I lot of this analysis ignores that the UBS account is frozen (multi-millions). I'm not particularly interested in all the elections etc.

UK banks will not be able to open an account for fide (it is in the law and diligence process - they can hardly miss it can they)?

Why should ECF continue to pay into a bank account that fide have not got control of or unfrozen or any UK organiser of a tournament for that matter?

However below is a UBS investment opportunity (I got a facebook sponsored ad from them today);

Opportunities are blossoming in China as it moves beyond manufacturing and into the future. Unprecedented investment in AI and precision medicine are just the beginning.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:48 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:19 pm
Why should ECF continue to pay into a bank account that fide have not got control of or unfrozen or any UK organiser of a tournament for that matter?
For the most part, paying FIDE isn't a continuous process in the way that I think you might imagine it. Organisers don't directly pay FIDE. Each Federation has a tab. Costs incurred by a Federation are added to the tab, and the Federation is required to pay the balance every 6 months upon receipt of an invoice. There will be fees outside this tab process, but that's basically how it works.

It's not really relevant, but there is a cap on the maximum amount of money a Federation's tab can build to. The value of this cap, and indeed its existence, has been raised in FIDE meetings in recent times.

Nick Grey
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by Nick Grey » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:06 pm

Alex thanks for the quick clarification. I believe the ECF have a good handle on this, especially you.

The idea that Federations should continue to pay into a frozen Swiss bank account is really one for them.

USB will have considered the matter before making their decision.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:20 pm

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9530&start=30#p211306

is a post which claims the imminent loss of FIDE banking facilities has been somewhat exaggerated.

Nick Grey
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by Nick Grey » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:53 pm

Roger - I'm not sure why referring back to this same thread. The USB bank account has not been unfrozen.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:58 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:53 pm
The USB bank account has not been unfrozen.
Read the posting. The implication is that the FIDE Treasurer is crying wolf. That's quite consistent with the observation that there's a civil war inside FIDE with those who opposed the Presidential aspirations of Kok, Karpov and Kasparov now wanting to see the back of Kirsan.

Nick Grey
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by Nick Grey » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:18 am

The BBC report is accurate which was the original post. I'm not interested in the infighting nor the implication that the treasurer is crying wolf. Thanks.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:48 am

Nick Grey wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:18 am
The BBC report is accurate which was the original post.
Read the first line of the BBC report
The World Chess Federation (Fide) says its Swiss bank accounts have been closed after its president was accused of facilitating transactions on behalf of the Syrian government.
FIDE says
I think the Leon Watson report in the Telegraph pre-dates the BBC story, although they say almost the same thing.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:38 pm

chess.com has an update.

https://www.chess.com/news/view/swiss-b ... lyumzhinov

The story is that UBS are closing the bank account from the end of April, rather than that it has already happened.

The Swiss Treasurer of FIDE hasn't always been anti Kirsan.

http://www.chessdom.com/dr-adrian-siege ... vs-ticket/

You think he might have noticed potential problems in 2013.

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:53 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:38 pm
You think he might have noticed potential problems in 2013.
I don't think it was possible to foresee that Kirsan would find himself on the US Treasury's sanctions list. They are answerable to nobody and are not required to reveal any supporting evidence for such action.

Nick Grey
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:36 pm

The most noticeable comment is from UBS.
Fide hopefully has not put all it's egg's in one basket as far as banking and it's investments.
Whether it is a good advertisement for chess is one thing. Whether bankers and others would want to support fide is another.

I am trying to recollect a time when fide did not have some crisis but I'm not old enough to remember.

shaunpress
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by shaunpress » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:39 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:53 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:38 pm
You think he might have noticed potential problems in 2013.
I don't think it was possible to foresee that Kirsan would find himself on the US Treasury's sanctions list. They are answerable to nobody and are not required to reveal any supporting evidence for such action.
Nick, I swear you were the person who told me about 'Kalmykian' oil, actually being re-branded Iraqi oil during the time of US sanctions, so if anyone knew he had form in this regard, it surely would have been you. (Unless I'm mistaken, then apologies in advance)

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:03 am

shaunpress wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:39 am
Nick, I swear you were the person who told me about 'Kalmykian' oil, actually being re-branded Iraqi oil during the time of US sanctions, so if anyone knew he had form in this regard, it surely would have been you. (Unless I'm mistaken, then apologies in advance)
You're right, that was the story at the time and I believed it. The point is that if I "knew", then the US Treasury certainly knew and they didn't care. What is new is that the Americans are now, for internal reasons, casting around for Russian "villains".

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:04 am

The following letter has been sent from the FIDE Treasurer to all federations. The fact that he states that the banking problems are in no way part of an election manoeuvre will doubtless be taken in some quarters as further proof that they are.
Adrian Siegel wrote:Following my letter dated February 12, 2018, several questions and rumors have come up. In particular, complete misunderstanding has been seen among journalists. Therefore, the most common questions and rumors shall be addressed below in order to set the records straight:

• Is FIDE or Kirsan Ilyumzhinov on the sanction list of the U.S. Department of the Treasury?

It is not comprehensible at all that the rumor has come up that FIDE might be on the sanction list. In the letter of February 12, this was clearly written.

The sports association FIDE was never on the sanction list of the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

On the contrary, Kirsan Ilyumzhinov as private person is on the sanction list of the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

Of course, we can’t avoid that some companies (potential sponsors) or some private persons do not distinguish among this fact and just say ‘if the president of FIDE is on the sanction list then the entire FIDE is on this list’.


• Are FIDE’s accounts frozen?

In the letter dated February 12, 2018, it was clearly written that the Swiss bank UBS will close our accounts but it has not been said that our accounts are or will be frozen. Our accounts are not frozen at all and FIDE is completely functional with its finances.


• Is FIDE bankrupt?

This is another claim without basis. In 2016, Fide has made a surplus of around 850,000 euros and in 2017 FIDE had another surplus of around 500,000 euros. Moreover, FIDE’s assets could have been substantially augmented again. Therefore, allegations of bankruptcy have to be seen as cheap propaganda.


• How can Kirsan Ilyumshinov ‘damage’ FIDE if he has withdrawn from “any legal, financial and business operations of FIDE”?

As it was written in the letter dated February 12, 2018, FIDE’s Presidential Board decided on December 6, 2015, that Kirsan Ilyumzhinov withdraws from “any legal, financial and business operations of FIDE”. Hereby, there was made a strong statement in order to show that FIDE is not involved in Kirsan Ilyumzhinov’s private business at all and this message has been forwarded to our bank as well. However, despite this clear decision of the Presidential Board (with acceptance by Kirsan Ilyumzhinov) in the following months Kirsan Ilyumzhinov travelled around the world and repeatedly stated that he is still fully in charge in FIDE. Of course, hereby others became confused and wondered whether Kirsan Ilyumzhinov had withdrawn from legal, financial and operational functions or he remained in his previous complete functions. Therefore, the decision of December 6, 2015, has been repeatedly renewed by the Presidential Board but the problem remained.


• Why doesn’t FIDE just remove Kirsan Ilyumzhinov from his presidency?

In FIDE’s statute this option is not given. Thus, a president remains in his/her position for the entire elected term. This means, if an elected person does not want to resign from his/her position it is very difficult to handle such a problem.

However, to protect FIDE the Presidential Board went as far as the statute allows (see above).


• Isn’t the letter of February 12, 2018, just a maneuver prior to the election in September 2018?

Not at all. It isn’t comprehensible how an independent Swiss bank should have been pressed for a decision. Moreover, since FIDE is facing technical problems for payments without an account no one has any interest in this process of the UBS. The closure of the accounts is a fact made by the bank and not by us. Thus, this is definitely not a pre-election maneuver.


I hope that it was possible to address sufficiently the questions and baseless rumors. Indeed, FIDE faces a problem due to the presence of Kirsan Ilyumzhinov on the sanction list of the U.S. Department of the Treasury. The main effort of FIDE has now to be that it has not to suffer from any personal problems. I can assure you that the treasurer and the office in Athens are working hard to find a good solution for FIDE.


Sincerely yours



Prof. Dr. Adrian M. Siegel FIDE Treasurer[/quote}

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE account closed

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:34 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:04 am
The fact that he states that the banking problems are in no way part of an election manoeuvre will doubtless be taken in some quarters as further proof that they are.
Do we assume then that the Swiss Treasurer will be using his influence such that Switzerland doesn't vote for Kirsan as President in 2018?

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