Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

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Mike Truran
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by Mike Truran » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:41 am

I can’t comment on Newcastle specifically, but your assertion that English congresses in general don’t offer entry fee refunds as a matter of principle is complete nonsense.

Alan Walton
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by Alan Walton » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:44 pm

Sometimes you have to have a good laugh at threads on here, some people have to think about what happens in the real world and accept that entry to chess tournaments are no different to buying any other type of commodity or service where normally there are £ implications of cancellation

But I kind of agree that these conditions should be advertised clearly on entry forms

E Michael White
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by E Michael White » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:17 pm

Mike Truran wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:41 am
.....your assertion that English congresses in general don’t offer entry fee refunds as a matter of principle is complete nonsense
I have played in congresses for 50+ years probably in more than you Mike. My impression is that more often than not refunds in ENG tournaments are not given on principle. This policy encourages late entry as players don't want to enter until they are sure they can play. My view is that a better way to deal with withdrawals is to give a full return as an offset against the entry fee to a congress event the following year. This would enable the congress to meet its budget in the current year if prizes have been guaranteed.

While I'm posting, the policy of advertising on websites who has entered in advance carries security risks and should be avoided. There is a congress coming up that started advertising who has entered 8 weeks in advance of the tournament date.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:09 pm

E Michael White wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:17 pm
the policy of advertising on websites who has entered in advance carries security risks
What are you thinking of here?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by Adam Raoof » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:28 pm

E Michael White wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:17 pm
Mike Truran wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:41 am
.....your assertion that English congresses in general don’t offer entry fee refunds as a matter of principle is complete nonsense
I have played in congresses for 50+ years probably in more than you Mike. My impression is that more often than not refunds in ENG tournaments are not given on principle. This policy encourages late entry as players don't want to enter until they are sure they can play. My view is that a better way to deal with withdrawals is to give a full return as an offset against the entry fee to a congress event the following year. This would enable the congress to meet its budget in the current year if prizes have been guaranteed.
Can you find a tournament in England where this is stated in the terms and conditions?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:39 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:09 pm
E Michael White wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:17 pm
the policy of advertising on websites who has entered in advance carries security risks
What are you thinking of here?
http://www.mediameasurement.com/ir/soci ... st-friend/
https://www.confused.com/home-insurance ... et-victims
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -away.html

Chess tournament websites are not social media, but the same connections can be drawn. I suppose you could say the same about evening league chess and 4NCL chess! There are other considerations as well - knowing whether the property is actually empty, which may mitigate the risk. But it is surprising what it is possible to find out from someone's online footprint (including what others say about you as well as what you put up there yourself).
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:40 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:28 pm
E Michael White wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:17 pm
Mike Truran wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:41 am
.....your assertion that English congresses in general don’t offer entry fee refunds as a matter of principle is complete nonsense
I have played in congresses for 50+ years probably in more than you Mike. My impression is that more often than not refunds in ENG tournaments are not given on principle. This policy encourages late entry as players don't want to enter until they are sure they can play. My view is that a better way to deal with withdrawals is to give a full return as an offset against the entry fee to a congress event the following year. This would enable the congress to meet its budget in the current year if prizes have been guaranteed.
Can you find a tournament in England where this is stated in the terms and conditions?
http://www.4ncl.co.uk/fide/t&cs_18.htm
http://www.4ncl.co.uk/fide/t&cs_whitsun_2018.htm

"If entrants withdraw before the congress they will be entitled to a refund of their entry fee less a £5 administration charge. If they have booked a hotel room, refunds/transfers etc will be subject to the arrangements set out on the Accommodation page."

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by Adam Raoof » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:45 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:40 pm
Adam Raoof wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:28 pm
E Michael White wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:17 pm
I have played in congresses for 50+ years probably in more than you Mike. My impression is that more often than not refunds in ENG tournaments are not given on principle. This policy encourages late entry as players don't want to enter until they are sure they can play. My view is that a better way to deal with withdrawals is to give a full return as an offset against the entry fee to a congress event the following year. This would enable the congress to meet its budget in the current year if prizes have been guaranteed.
Can you find a tournament in England where this is stated in the terms and conditions?
http://www.4ncl.co.uk/fide/t&cs_18.htm
http://www.4ncl.co.uk/fide/t&cs_whitsun_2018.htm

"If entrants withdraw before the congress they will be entitled to a refund of their entry fee less a £5 administration charge. If they have booked a hotel room, refunds/transfers etc will be subject to the arrangements set out on the Accommodation page."
Doesn't count! Admin fees notwithstanding...

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JustinHorton
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:27 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:39 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:09 pm
E Michael White wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:17 pm
the policy of advertising on websites who has entered in advance carries security risks
What are you thinking of here?
http://www.mediameasurement.com/ir/soci ... st-friend/
https://www.confused.com/home-insurance ... et-victims
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -away.html
Any actual stories about real people who were either burgled because they were listed on a chess tournament website?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:46 pm

I'm assuming the event referred to was the Northumbria Chess masters. To be fair to all concerned the entry form stops short of saying anything about withdrawals one way or another; however the event was limited to sixty players who had to meet a certain grading criteria. It would be wrong to compare it to a standard British weekender.

While 18 days would be a reasonable period of notice for most events I think the organisers would have struggled to fill the vacant place. If other players had chosen to withdraw, safe in the knowledge their entry fee would be refunded the event could have taken a major financial hit.

And as people have said already, there are plenty of examples of things that are not refundable. For example if I bought a ticket to a concert at Wembley Stadium and a train ticket to get there from Harrogate, then came down with flu two days before I would lose both.

Sponsors in English chess are few and far between and it is not their job to arbitrate on refund disputes. That is solely a matter for the organiser. Hopefully in this instance the sponsors will simply disregard any attempt by a player to engage them in correspondence.
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Nick Burrows
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by Nick Burrows » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:58 pm

I withdrew from the Northumbria Masters the day before the tournament due to a virus. I waited till the last moment to see if i felt fit enough to play. I didn't even think about asking for my entry fee back.
I agree that the withdrawl policy should be clearly indicated on the entry form.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:52 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:27 pm
Any actual stories about real people who were either burgled because they were listed on a chess tournament website?
Some years ago GM Michal Krasenkow was mugged on his way home from an event. The criminals had seen the announcement that he had won the first prize and were waiting for him when he flew back to Poland.

In 2014 another poster reported that I was about to make a two week trip to Gambia. In a possible excess of caution, I asked Carl to remove the post, which he did.

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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:02 pm

There was a related incident in the 1991 Masters Final. Mike Hallett was 7-0 and 8-2 up against Stephen Hendry, and needed pink and black to win 9-2. He missed the pink, and from there contrived to lose 9-8.

Hallett's mood presumably didn't improve when he returned home to find his home had been burgled by someone who saw the snooker on TV and realised Hallett was away playing in it.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:12 pm

Out of interest, how do we know that? Did the burglar confess?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Mark Ashley
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Re: Refunding Entry Fees to Withdrawn Players

Post by Mark Ashley » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:15 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:02 pm
There was a related incident in the 1991 Masters Final. Mike Hallett was 7-0 and 8-2 up against Stephen Hendry, and needed pink and black to win 9-2. He missed the pink, and from there contrived to lose 9-8.

Hallett's mood presumably didn't improve when he returned home to find his home had been burgled by someone who saw the snooker on TV and realised Hallett was away playing in it.
there have been several high profile cases of it happening to footballers - but i guess that allows more time to plan (and thry have more valu7ables?)

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