Snow Cancellations

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Mick Norris
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:16 am

I am told Lancs won 7-5 with Jeff winning in 80 moves
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Neil Graham
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by Neil Graham » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:25 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:14 am
Michael Flatt wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:06 am
I'm impressed at how speedily SCCU captains are managing to reschedule their matches that were weather affected.

I should be in a position to confirm SCCU nominations for the ECF competition shortly after receiving results of matches that will be played on the 24th March.

There does remain uncertainty, however, over the dates of the ECF County Championships since they are not yet available on the ECF website:
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/competit ... onships-2/
Only by people who haven't read the rules, or are trying to cause a kerfuffle. The rules are on the previous year's page, and they haven't changed.

Of course, if there were a Controller, things might appear on that page already.
I thought that Tom Thorpe had been appointed as Controller. Is that not the case? Are the finals going to be held at Warwick?

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:39 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:25 pm

I thought that Tom Thorpe had been appointed as Controller. Is that not the case?
On the federation website listing officials he only appears as "Manager of Arbiters" http://www.englishchess.org.uk/about/ecf-officials/

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:18 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:25 pm
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:14 am
Michael Flatt wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:06 am
I'm impressed at how speedily SCCU captains are managing to reschedule their matches that were weather affected.

I should be in a position to confirm SCCU nominations for the ECF competition shortly after receiving results of matches that will be played on the 24th March.

There does remain uncertainty, however, over the dates of the ECF County Championships since they are not yet available on the ECF website:
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/competit ... onships-2/
Only by people who haven't read the rules, or are trying to cause a kerfuffle. The rules are on the previous year's page, and they haven't changed.

Of course, if there were a Controller, things might appear on that page already.
I thought that Tom Thorpe had been appointed as Controller. Is that not the case? Are the finals going to be held at Warwick?
He had indeed. And then he read the comments from various people on here in response to the County Championship consultation, and decided he was better off focusing his energies elsewhere. So I found another role for him, which worked out quite nicely given Geoff Gammon has recently been ill.

Yes, the Finals are in Warwick.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:53 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:18 pm
And then he read the comments from various people on here in response to the County Championship consultation, and decided he was better off focusing his energies elsewhere.
This does not surprise me. As I've said before it was privilege to be involved with such a historic event for four years (to the point where I might just qualify for a mention in a footnote) and the general majority of county captains were polite and respectful. However I ultimately became fed up of the repeated pedantry and complaints from a number of individuals (and a certain county union) to the point where I'm not sorry to be out of it. I might have offered to step into the breach if there weren't too many other demands on my time at present; unfortunately my chess and non chess workload is piling up.

Every Thursday evening I coach a group of 12-14 year olds. Even at their worst (and before Christmas I did have to have a serious conversation with some of them) they are better behaved than quite a few county captains. Some of the comments on the consultation thread were atrocious; if the competition collapses due to the lack of a controller I suspect many will take the view that it is not their fault.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

J T Melsom
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by J T Melsom » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:39 am

Maybe this should be a private message but I get Andrew Zigmond's message so completely. We are all volunteers. By all means be vocal about incompetence, but a difference of opinions about other things should remain courteous at all times.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:44 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:53 pm
Some of the comments on the consultation thread were atrocious; if the competition collapses due to the lack of a controller I suspect many will take the view that it is not their fault.
That comment may or not be aimed at me amongst others, but if it is, you bet that I shall take that view.

I'll leave it there.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:41 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:53 pm
However I ultimately became fed up of the repeated pedantry and complaints from a number of individuals (and a certain county union) to the point where I'm not sorry to be out of it.
I cannot help feeling that effectively ruling a whole match defaulted because of the board order of a player without a published grade (or was it someone having the temerity to play without being an ECF member) and demanding that a player without a current published grade be required clearance to play in an Open competition is the ECF itself setting the bar for pedantry.

Graham Borrowdale
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:59 am

While I don't disagree with the sentiments behind Andrew's comments, it does become a bit tiresome to read this 'you are lucky to have such hard working volunteers' rant time after time. I know we are. However, most chess players are extremely grateful for the work put in by organisers, and most take the time to thank them for their efforts.
Keep up the good work, but don't forget, we are all on the same side.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:55 pm

Graham Borrowdale wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:59 am
While I don't disagree with the sentiments behind Andrew's comments, it does become a bit tiresome to read this 'you are lucky to have such hard working volunteers' rant time after time. I know we are. However, most chess players are extremely grateful for the work put in by organisers, and most take the time to thank them for their efforts.
Keep up the good work, but don't forget, we are all on the same side.
I try not to overplay the `poor little volunteer` card because a) as far as the county championships are concerned my contribution has been relatively negligible and b) it is my choice to volunteer.

I got involved in chess organisation twenty years ago for two reasons. One is that I tend to have strong ideas about how things should be done which means I should be willing to put my money where my mouth is. However the more important reason is that I want to create opportunities for other people to enjoy the game of chess, whether it's existing players, returning players or (best of all) new players. Inevitably this may involve a certain amount of administration or considering governance matters but ultimately for me it's about getting two people on opposite sides of the chessboard and multiplying that across as many boards as possible. Contrary to the `controller arbiter nexus` insult rules and regulations come a distant second; unfortunately for many county captains the rules come top of the list.

I'm sorry to found myself at drawn swords with David Sedgwick who has done more English chess than most but when a flagship event is struggling to attract a controller everybody involved needs to have a long hard look at what culture has evolved.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:25 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:55 pm
everybody involved needs to have a long hard look at what culture has evolved.


It goes back forty years though. At the heart of the long standing dispute between Greater Manchester and Lancashire is a squabble over who should be eligible for what county team. The BCF managed a form of cease fire by having Greater Manchester play in the MCCU, but it and its ECF successor have not managed to this day to get a peace treaty.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:34 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:55 pm
I'm sorry to found myself at drawn swords with David Sedgwick who has done more English chess than most but when a flagship event is struggling to attract a controller everybody involved needs to have a long hard look at what culture has evolved.
Thank you for the compliment. I too regret the drawn swords and I have sought to be restrained in my more recent comments.

However, I stand by my suggestion that it would be in the best interests of the ECF Counties Championships if the responsibility for the National Stages were transferred from the Director of Home Chess to a Committee of the five Unions. (I am referring to the current Director and to future ones, not specifically to the incumbent.)

Whatever "cultural" issues there may be, they don't seem to apply to the Union Championships.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:26 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:34 pm
However, I stand by my suggestion that it would be in the best interests of the ECF Counties Championships if the responsibility for the National Stages were transferred from the Director of Home Chess to a Committee of the five Unions.
I had the idea one of the proposals involved moving the Union stages to being the responsibility of the ECF, or equivalently with the National competition running during the same time period, and allowing every county to enter.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:45 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:26 pm
David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:34 pm
However, I stand by my suggestion that it would be in the best interests of the ECF Counties Championships if the responsibility for the National Stages were transferred from the Director of Home Chess to a Committee of the five Unions.
I had the idea one of the proposals involved moving the Union stages to being the responsibility of the ECF, or equivalently with the National competition running during the same time period, and allowing every county to enter.
I was referring to what, in my view, needs to happen once the proposals to which you refer have been withdrawn, or rejected at the forthcoming ECF Council Meeting.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Snow Cancellations

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:19 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:34 pm
Whatever "cultural" issues there may be, they don't seem to apply to the Union Championships.
I wonder a bit. The SCCU are quite happy yes and others OK but..... The NCCU obviously isn't and (I think?) the MCCU doesn't even have an open competition these days.

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