Club bank accounts

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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:04 am

"Maybe not, but there was a case many years ago of a treasurer secretly borrowing money from an organisation for personal benefit before returning it. If memory serves me correctly, he'd been doing it for about 3 years before anyone noticed."

Did that organization then say, "Give all the money back and we won't tell anyone"?

(edited for typo)

Ian Thompson
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Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Club bank accounts

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:40 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:04 am
"Maybe not, but there was a case many years ago of a treasurer secretly borrowing money from an organisation for personal benefit before returning it. If memory serves me correctly, he'd been doing it for about 3 years before anyone noticed."

Did that organization then say, "Give all the money back and we won't tell anyone"?
It clearly wasn't kept secret otherwise I wouldn't know about it.

I don't know whether he had any borrowed money at the time he was found out or not. He denied any wrongdoing, but paid compensation for lost interest on the money while he had it. No further action was taken, apart, I assume, from dismissing him as Treasurer.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:39 pm

"It clearly wasn't kept secret otherwise I wouldn't know about it."

If it's the same one that I'm thinking of, he was allowed to resign then got a similar job elsewhere, again accidentally borrowing money from that company, but they were a bit more forthright, and he ended up doing time! The second company was a bit cross at the first one...

Neil Graham
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by Neil Graham » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:46 pm

An ex-Treasurer/Financial Director of the BCF certainly defrauded the Federation.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:56 am

"An ex-Treasurer/Financial Director of the BCF certainly defrauded the Federation."

That's the one! (I assume there's only one...) Actually, both his next employers and the police were unhappy that he had been allowed to quietly resign, although I can see why the Federation acted as they did.

NickFaulks
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:23 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:56 am
Actually, both his next employers and the police were unhappy that he had been allowed to quietly resign, although I can see why the Federation acted as they did.
I once employed an admin manager who was caught stealing and sacked. He applied for a job with the predecessor of the Financial Conduct Authority. They asked for a reference. I sent back the worst one that I was advised was legally permissible, giving the broadest possible hint that all was not right, and they hired him immediately. He later got a job with a big bank and did six months for stealing their money.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:40 am

The way our account with the 'former shilling gem' bank (sorry, I'm still not diverging identity but crossword addicts will find this easy!) works is that three club officers are acceptable signatories to the account but, even for larger amounts, only two signatories are needed. That attempts to pre-empt the situation where one officer is for one reason or another unavailable. Where these are internet payments, A requests the payment and the request is then passed to B and/or C who has to authorise it. For smaller amounts, in our case £200, just one authorisation is needed - that's to avoid undue delays over relatively trifling amounts. I'm absolutely convinced of the probity of our officers but, even if this were not the case, the fact that three different officers have internet access to the current state of the account would be something of a deterrent to any irregular activity.

Neil Graham
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by Neil Graham » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:39 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:56 am
"An ex-Treasurer/Financial Director of the BCF certainly defrauded the Federation."

That's the one! (I assume there's only one...) Actually, both his next employers and the police were unhappy that he had been allowed to quietly resign, although I can see why the Federation acted as they did.
The person concerned passed away in 2008 and was a town councillor at the time having been elected in 2007. His 2007 manifesto stated "until recently he was Treasurer of the British Chess Federation" which is about as far from the truth as you could get.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:20 pm

"The person concerned passed away in 2008 and was a town councillor at the time having been elected in 2007. His 2007 manifesto stated "until recently he was Treasurer of the British Chess Federation" which is about as far from the truth as you could get."

Wow - I didn't know the bit about being a town councillor. If the council's anything like mine, I'm not altogether surprised!

E Michael White
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by E Michael White » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:41 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:40 am
Where these are internet payments, A requests the payment and the request is then passed to B and/or C who has to authorise it.
Hello Roger. Does the software prevent A authorising their own payment ?

Of more concern for chess clubs is that most are set up as Unincorporated Associations which usually means any member of the management committee can enter into a contract on behalf of the club without the consent of the others, with consequences.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:29 pm

E Michael White wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:41 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:40 am
Where these are internet payments, A requests the payment and the request is then passed to B and/or C who has to authorise it.
Hello Roger. Does the software prevent A authorising their own payment ?

Of more concern for chess clubs is that most are set up as Unincorporated Associations which usually means any member of the management committee can enter into a contract on behalf of the club without the consent of the others, with consequences.
As to your first question, yes, or so I am led to believe. In our case, I'd like to believe A hasn't tested this out! As to your second point, I'm not a lawyer but I'd welcome a comment from anyone who is. (My apologies, Michael, if it proves you are yourself a legal eagle!).

E Michael White
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by E Michael White » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:08 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:29 pm
As to your second point, I'm not a lawyer but I'd welcome a comment from anyone who is. (My apologies, Michael, if it proves you are yourself a legal eagle!).
Nope I'm not a lawyer. I've been mistakenly accused of being many things eg an actor, author and stuntman plus more but never a lawyer. Come to think of it a background of actor, author and stuntman would probably be useful for a lawyer.
Last edited by E Michael White on Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by Paul McKeown » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:23 am

The way it works is that A raises a transaction or set of transactions. B or C or D must then authorise the transaction before any funds are transferred. All have PIN terminals to verify identity.

James Courtenay
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Location: Southend, Essex

Re: Club bank accounts

Post by James Courtenay » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:37 pm

If you present a cheque for £200 no-one checks it anyway.

And no wonder clubs find it difficult to find treasurers if members fill the need for Fort Knox level security... If you've got £10,000s in the bank maybe, but for your average club? A decent auditor/examiner is probably more important and significantly increases the risks of the dodgy treasurer becoming a social pariah!
James.

E Michael White
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Re: Club bank accounts

Post by E Michael White » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:07 am

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:29 pm
As to your second point, I'm not a lawyer but I'd welcome a comment from anyone who is. (My apologies, Michael, if it proves you are yourself a legal eagle!).
I realise this is a few months back now and I meant to reply earlier. As said I am not a lawyer but saw this summary recently from people who are lawyers:-

https://www.morton-fraser.com/knowledg ... ions-facts

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