Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

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John Clarke
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by John Clarke » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:35 pm

R G Edwards wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:17 pm
I know they’re kids, so one has to cut them some slack, but why are so many junior players so downright bad mannered at the board?

You left out j'adoubing the pieces when it's not their turn.

And standing up and leaning over the board from their side was quite the vogue for a short time in the mid-70s, but faded out just as quickly as it arose.

Nothing else new here - I experienced most if not all these behaviours at one time or another during competitive play, not always from juniors (the worst sniffer - 85dB at least, always in pairs - was a former British Championship participant). The only interfering parent kept fetching his 10 year old son back from his wanderings whenever I pressed the clock. I did consider lodging a complaint, but didn't fancy coping with the "he's only a kid, you miserable git" brigade.
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Keith Arkell
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by Keith Arkell » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:29 am

My pet hate is when you play a promising kid, in a tournament like Hastings, and they go off to an area where the parents are congregated, with laptops and smart phones alive, and then the kid returns to play what turns out to be the engine first choice move.

I'm sure that in reality absolutely nothing untoward happened, but somehow just being paranoid about the possiblilty can messs with your head, and the quality of your chess.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:48 am

Keith Arkell wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:29 am
My pet hate is when you play a promising kid, in a tournament like Hastings, and they go off to an area where the parents are congregated, with laptops and smart phones alive, and then the kid returns to play what turns out to be the engine first choice move.
Keith makes a good point, that the layout of some venues could be conducive to players receiving in game advice from their back up teams. The hard line would be that arbiters insist that spectators/parents don't use phones or computers when within the playing venue. In some premises, Wokefield and Sunningdale for example with their central atriums, segregation would be very difficult to achieve.

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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by Phil Neatherway » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:22 am

I have just remembered the time I played a junior who kept going to the toilet when it was his move. On querying this with the arbiter and opposing team captain, I was told that he was very nervous. But he stopped doing it.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:39 am

Keith Arkell wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:29 am
I'm sure that in reality absolutely nothing untoward happened, but somehow just being paranoid about the possiblilty can messs with your head, and the quality of your chess.
Good point.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:49 am

I have witnessed all those faults as well (and others). Nobody say that ALL juniors do it. And of course some adults behave badly as well. I get the impression that it's generally better now. One of the issues now compared to 50 years ago is that usually both parents go out to work and don't bring up children the way they would (or should) have done. Also children have the power at schools. "Childline", which has done good things, now sends representatives into schools and encourages children to complain if anyone upsets them. Child misbehaves in class, teacher tells them off, child phones Childline... I raised my voice to control people including juniors at the start of a round in a tournament, and some teachers came up to say I would be sacked if I did that in a school lesson!

It's not just juniors anyway, it's their parents and coaches, and some arbiters as well. Some years ago at Guernsey, an overseas player complained to the leader of the BCF Junior Squad (a qualified arbiter) that two of the juniors were cheating by discussing the game. "That's nothing to do me!" he said before storming off. I won't name him here, but he was the individual who took a group of juniors on a train, found that their booked seats were occupied, so (instead of saying "these are our seats"), pulled the communication cord to cause an emergency stop of the train. The very well-behaved juniors with him were shocked!

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JustinHorton
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:46 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:49 am
. One of the issues now compared to 50 years ago is that usually both parents go out to work and don't bring up children the way they would (or should) have done.
I very much doubt that references to what supposedly happened half a century ago will tell us anything about what parenting was like then, or what it is like now, or how it has changed, or how much, let alone draw any conclusions from that which are applicable to chessboard behaviour.
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:12 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:48 am
Keith makes a good point, that the layout of some venues could be conducive to players receiving in game advice from their back up teams.
A few years ago I was victimised by an opponent who left the room after every move and was soon afterwards caught cheating. This has made me particularly sensitive to the issue.

The following season I faced a 4NCL opponent - a junior, as it happened - who behaved in the same way. In a highly complex tactical position he left the room after every move, returning to bang out a strong reply and repeat the process. For some reason I did not think he was cheating, and still don't, but I just wished he wouldn't do it. Also, that his coach, for I think he had one there, could have told him it was not the way to behave.

Then there was another one, this time an overseas player in a weekender - every single move, straight out the door. I spent more time wondering what he was up to than thinking about the position, lost stupidly and withdrew from the tournament,

There seem to be two groups of chess players, one ( like me ) who leave the playing hall once or twice during a game and a small minority who do so after almost every move. Why?
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Nick Burrows
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by Nick Burrows » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:18 am

Restlessness. Nervous Energy. Boredom. Very rarely cheating.

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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:20 am

So we're already on three pages moaning about juniors but only two about chess development and attracting new players to the game. I find that very telling.
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NickFaulks
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:21 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:18 am
Restlessness. Nervous Energy. Boredom. Very rarely cheating.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:27 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:12 am
There seem to be two groups of chess players, one ( like me ) who leave the playing hall once or twice during a game and a small minority who do so after almost every move. Why?
I think there should be a presumption that if you frequently leave the playing area, then you are at risk of being accused of cheating. To avoid such accusations, there should be a presumption that you stay at the board, or within eyesight of your opponent.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:48 am

That's going to be hard if you're going to the toilet.
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NickFaulks
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:53 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:48 am
That's going to be hard if you're going to the toilet.
If you have to do that after every move, then you should register your disability in advance with the arbiter.
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Re: Irritating habits of juniors -a brief list

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:29 pm

I don't reckon nervousness is going to count in that respect
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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