English Chess Forum

R G Edwards wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:28 pm

When I was growing up, parents were both teachers and authority figures that established rules, boundaries and modes of behaviour.

Perhaps this style of parenting also creates a relative lack of tolerance, when people or children aren't behaving in the 'proper' way.

Personally, i am rarely disturbed by the behaviour of juniors because i know it is unintentional and so easily blocked out. It is when it is consciously done that it becomes tricky.

I recall Lawrence Trent posted about a new low reached by a junior of "stereo nose-picking" - successfully dislodging/mining bogies with each index finger - immediately prior to offering a handshake ...

There's a minority of juniors who behave poorly although, if they belong to a decent junior club, they're soon told to snap out of it. But it has always been so - you can tell who were the offending juniors X years ago by the way a minority of adults, now aged around X+10, behave today.

I have to say I have come across quite a lot of the aforementioned behaviour with juniors. I don’t know if it’s something coaches are telling them to do or it is something which comes naturally to em, but I’ve dealt with everything from knuckle cracking, annoying noises, clock bashing, piece screwing, loud burping, going for a confab with his dad in the middle of the game while his dad fiddles with Fritz on the laptop (!) and most annoying of all repeated draw offers (sometimes twice in the same move!). I also once had a kid who was playing on with a loan king and 2 pawns against my Q and about 5 pawns, repeatedly announce stalemate (it wasn’t he had pawn moves) at the top of his voice

I had a particularly miserable British a few years back in Coventry because I had a junior in pretty much every round, they came with all the aforementioned behaviour but also seemed to be of a better class player than you usually come across - I felt like kinder garden cop in that tournament!

Ah yes, the Coventry British. I faced ten opponents who were younger than me in that tournament. That probably won't happen for quite some time now.

Come on folks, let's be a bit more charitable here. We were all young once, even if some of us need exceptionally good memories to recall this. No doubt we all had habits that infuriated our elders. My most annoying experiences have been with adult opponents - and at least they were old enough to know better. We need junior players and, more importantly, not discourage them from continuing to play into adolescence and adulthood.

Oh I think most of us are being charitable but there are some children who clearly aren't ready for adult chess, and I'm not sure that those teaching them chess aren't teaching them bad habits, or correcting them when observed. The repeated draw offers and the offering of a draw with a hand stretched across the board so that you can't see the board aren't things you randomly decide to do. But yes adult behaviour can be worse and doesn't have as much excuse.

Julie Denning wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:23 am

Come on folks, let's be a bit more charitable here. We were all young once, even if some of us need exceptionally good memories to recall this. No doubt we all had habits that infuriated our elders. My most annoying experiences have been with adult opponents - and at least they were old enough to know better. We need junior players and, more importantly, not discourage them from continuing to play into adolescence and adulthood.

Yeah of course we need them, and I don’t mean to sound harsh I’ve played a couple of juniors who have been lovely kids (Sam Davis springs to mind - when he was younger always very affable and well-mannered at the board, I’ve not seem him for a while as I’ve taken a sabbatical from Chess, but I’m sure he still is now).

However, this bad behaviour has been more the norm than not in my experience and I think it’s more the parents than anything, teaching the kids to push the boundaries and seeing what they can get away with to gain an edge. I’ve also once had a kids father give me a full on 30 second death stare when I refused a draw against his son (who was a piece and 2 pawns down) - the problem was easily solved though - I simply stood up to stretch my legs next to the father, simultaneously demonstrating I was a clear foot taller, he quickly scuttled off back to his laptop.

Generally, I have had nothing but good behaviour from juniors. The only exception is a tournament last year where I had the repeated draw offers when my opponent was lost, and the thing which annoys me most - eating loudly at the board. So I asked my opponent to go and do it elsewhere, which he did. It was his father which gave him the food, so I suspected it was a deliverate ploy - no doubt quite wrongly. Mind you, adult players eat at the board too. I've even see forum members do that.

And there was a comment above about a junior's father running Fritz. Surely you go and inform the controller if you see that.

If its a kit kat with a cup of coffee, I don't particularly object - if its a burger and a pile of chips, well, its not like you didn't just have 3 hours to kill in the break between rounds

I had three juniors in a team of mine last night and they conducted themselves impeccably.

The opposition was highly complimentary.

Jon Mahony wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:56 am

I also once had a kid who was playing on with a loan king and 2 pawns against my Q and about 5 pawns, repeatedly announce stalemate (it wasn’t he had pawn moves) at the top of his voice

Did he return it to its owner after the game?

Don't forget the players who have it the hardest are the poor well behaved junior players who have to put up with playing some terribly behaved brats on a regular basis. But as an aside, it bothers me a little that most of the leagues and clubs in my neck of the woods in the North West just don't have junior players full-stop. I have to wonder that in 20 years time the clubs will all cease to exist. Maybe encouraging junior players is the smarter long term idea, even with their bad habits!

Matt's daughter has no bad habits and reading this thread I have felt embarrassed that she might be reading it. Similarly I could name (and will) Sam Parry of Leek and Cheddleton who gave me a splendid game recently and after it was all over (he won) he apologised to me that his beating heart might have distracted me. I have played against some juniors whom I have found less affable - but in my experience they are few. I have played against some disagreeable adults - but in my experience they are few. We just remember them.

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:35 pm

Jon Mahony wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:56 am

I also once had a kid who was playing on with a loan king and 2 pawns against my Q and about 5 pawns, repeatedly announce stalemate (it wasn’t he had pawn moves) at the top of his voice

Did he return it to its owner after the game?

Did the loaned King come from a pawn shop ?