Free Chess Sets for schools

Discussions regarding the 70,000 Free Chess Sets for Schools in England.
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Paul Stimpson
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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Paul Stimpson » Tue May 20, 2008 2:10 pm

Charles,
Colossal brief, not really. Walking into an organisation on a Monday morning as the Sales team manager of the biggest IT training company in the UK. Then being told you have no staff but can get some. And I have an income target of £27m from the £22m done the year before then on top of that never had any dealing is this market place (I didn't know the product). And it worked.

Communication was what made that project, what stops the good development in the chess world is communication (or lack of it), whats making this project work is communication. If your not in the loop your not part of the team, to be part of the (ever growing) team you must except one thing, some of the things you know as fact are wrong (most of the things you perceive are just on the small scale not the large). Everything we are learning (and boy are we) has been done 6 months earlier by the army Cadet Force, now they are going to every (or as many as possible) schools. They started that project by only putting people on the team who were ready to change their thinking.
This is Gibberish

Can we get on Topic, can you please provide clear and understandable project updates/outlines/requirements/milestones etc, your post doesn't further anybody’s understanding of what is going on.

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Charles W. Wood
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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Charles W. Wood » Tue May 20, 2008 2:13 pm

Paul Stimpson wrote:Charles,
Colossal brief, not really. Walking into an organisation on a Monday morning as the Sales team manager of the biggest IT training company in the UK. Then being told you have no staff but can get some. And I have an income target of £27m from the £22m done the year before then on top of that never had any dealing is this market place (I didn't know the product). And it worked.

Communication was what made that project, what stops the good development in the chess world is communication (or lack of it), whats making this project work is communication. If your not in the loop your not part of the team, to be part of the (ever growing) team you must except one thing, some of the things you know as fact are wrong (most of the things you perceive are just on the small scale not the large). Everything we are learning (and boy are we) has been done 6 months earlier by the army Cadet Force, now they are going to every (or as many as possible) schools. They started that project by only putting people on the team who were ready to change their thinking.
This is Gibberish

Can we get on Topic, can you please provide clear and understandable project updates/outlines/requirements/milestones etc, your post doesn't further anybody’s understanding of what is going on.
So whats YOUR question? I've answered loads. You all complain because no one from the board posts, and theres not a central point of information, then when someone does come alongyou all slam him for going at the right speed and checking everything. We have choices here:

1. Treat you like mushrooms?
2. Just put out press releases only, just on the web site say?
3. have a full debate, but on the understanding that this is a very different project to any done before?
4. carry on as we are, digging and sniping?

Your choice.
Last edited by Charles W. Wood on Tue May 20, 2008 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Charles W. Wood » Tue May 20, 2008 2:23 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:Charles I am sorry but it is really not on for you to evade answering questions then to pose more in what you say away from the core issue.

For example could you please enlarge on this on.


To quote yourself 'I haven't met one yet in charge of any chess clubs I have set up through the councils across the country'

That is really fantastic work and your energy is to be applauded but which clubs are in the 'COUNTRY' That must take up a lot of time how do you find it with a full time occupation? Its hard enough setting one up in one county let aone those across the country.
Ernie

Theres only one question in there the rest are statements. So the answer is dedication.

As for enlarging, try to understand your asking for something next to nearly impossible. Which specific bit: teachers, councils, country, work load. All are huge answers.
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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Charles W. Wood » Tue May 20, 2008 3:00 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:Charles what is difficult about listing junior chess clubs you set up across the country? It would be really helpfull to know where they are.

You still have not answered the secific questions that are not statements.

Regretfully its manifestly obvious that you are not willing to deal with simple straight forward questions asked out of a desire to fully understand you project.
You didn't ask for that, you ask how I did it with a full time job and which clubs are in the country (be clear because that means many things, I play for a club which has been around 155 years, but thats not your question. Add to your question and be specific. You said clubs not junior clubs).

Scale, Ernie, Scale. We are currently working with 25,000 schools in some way shape and form (most don't even know work is being done with them). How hard is it to list. Very. Sorry not very, err impossible. 10,000 of them (thats an estimate) have already started the process (which is from planning or idea stage to a fully coached up and running club). Could you manage to list that?
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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Charles W. Wood » Tue May 20, 2008 3:23 pm

Heather Lang wrote:I've been watching all of this from the sidelines for a number of months. I guess my main observation would be that Andrew Martin, who is ECF Manager of Coaching, appears to have initially found out about the Chess Sets for Schools project (or at least the coaching side of the project) as a result of an announcement on the ECF website / forum rather than by being informed directly by someone within the ECF / Chess for Schools project and asked if he would like to be part of the team working on it from the start.

As there appear to be two parts to the project - providing chess sets, and following these up by offering to provide coaching in the schools that have received sets - it would make sense (to me anyway) for those running the project to invite the ECF Manager of Coaching to be involved with the project (whether from the start or from today). To say "Call when your[sic] wanting to be part of the team," in a public forum rather than inviting him to be part of a project run by the organisation he already holds a relevant post in seems an unusual way of going about it.

This impression may be completely wrong, and if it's not the case I apologise for misreading what has been written. But if I can read it like that, then I can see how sponsors / potential sponsors might also read it like that, and may also think it's an unusual way to go about things.


Another observation is that the route(s) by which schools may receive the free chess sets isn't currently 100% clear from the "Chess for Schools" website. My impression (from recent forum posts re Liverpool and from direct contact via my local County junior liaison officer) is that the sets are to be rolled out County by County. However, there's also a place on the Chess for Schools website (linked to from the ECF front page) where individual schools can register an interest.

Should schools be doing this, or should they be waiting for things to kick off in their own County, or should they be doing both? I appreciate that with a project like this, plans can change, but clarification would be welcome - especially if schools who are definitely interested can 'fast track' themselves by signing up directly via the Chess for Schools website, as the school featured on the ECF's front page with the first 10 chess sets appear to have done.

These observations are not attempts to accuse, apportion blame or criticise - just some input from someone who's not been in the thick of posting in these threads but has been following what has been posted.

Personally, I think that the big picture of the project is a great idea and am looking forward to be involved in some way, if this is possible, when the roll-out happens locally.
Good points, the Manager of Coaching situation is a long and complicated one. Not because of Andrew but more because of the split in the board.The manager of Coaching is a member of the Junior Directors staff as I understand it and should be ask by that official to be in charge of the coaching side of the project. As the split stopped more work than it created this has made it difficult for both me and Andrew. We snipe at each other now out of frustration rather than any malice. (The split is as I have said many times a situation that I had to live with, but I still to this day don't care who was right or wrong).

As for the schools registering. The answer is YES!. That may not look like the right answer to a open question but in this project it is. Registering will give us more information than the listing we are receiving. Registration also (well though the ECF email system) gives us an idea of what is going on out there, and it is very suprising. Sets will be (In believe, subject to confirmation from the parcel haulier) will be LEA to LEA.

Schools that register will not get any faster delivery but it will be known (by HMG) that they are the keen, proactive schools.
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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Charles W. Wood » Tue May 20, 2008 3:29 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:Oh dear, I have tried hard to be reasonable and keep to the main issues but regretfully I have failed to get an answers to the questions so I will ask again, please answer those that are central to the debate.

To remind you

Maybe it would help us move on if these questions are answered

(i) are the sets totally free; no delievery or admin costs involved.

(ii) are there any pre conditions to the sets being given to the schools?

(a) for example do the schools have to pay for any chess coaching.

(b) if so who gets paid? coaches? the Academy?


(iii) Will any of the various ECF trusts/funds be used in the furtherance of this project; for example coaching costs.
1. Yes
2. Yes, they must be used.
2.a. Depends on if they have a coach willing to help them who proffesional or volunteer, what area they are in, if Council wants to pay for it, if external agencies want to pay for it, but the answer is probably yes, in some way shape or form. (Schools are not as easy as you think)
2.b. The coach. Only the Coach. But they will have to be on the Accreditted Coach List.

3. Your call not mine, ECF board will be guiding that issue along. Not me. But I would hope so.
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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Charles W. Wood » Tue May 20, 2008 3:31 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:Please explain to a simple retired copper how one works with someone who does not know they are being worked with?

Quote We are currently working with 25,000 schools in some way shape and form (most don't even know work is being done with them).
Some schools, in most cases we will be working with the outside agancies and not the school.
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Paul Stimpson
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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Paul Stimpson » Tue May 20, 2008 3:52 pm

Charles,
2.b. The coach. Only the Coach. But they will have to be on the Accreditted Coach List.
Therefore are the Agencies being told they can only use coaches listed on the ECF Accredited Coaches List?

Some questions from the website
This scheme is fully backed by the English Chess Federation
When I spoke to you on the phone and I asked if this was your project (Renaissance Academy) you stated it was "Totally an ECF project". The statement on the website does not endorse that view. Is this just a mistake in wording?


we are delighted to work alongside the Chess for Schools Academy
I take the we as Holloid Plastics and that the Chess for Schools Academy is a central organisation for the control of the coaching, is this correct?

Thankyou for finally answering Ernie's questions.

Justin Hadi

Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Justin Hadi » Tue May 20, 2008 4:00 pm

Paul Stimpson wrote:Thankyou for finally answering Ernie's questions.
Is three hours really such a long time, Paul?

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Charles W. Wood
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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Charles W. Wood » Tue May 20, 2008 4:01 pm

Paul Stimpson wrote:Charles,
2.b. The coach. Only the Coach. But they will have to be on the Accreditted Coach List.
Therefore are the Agencies being told they can only use coaches listed on the ECF Accredited Coaches List?

Some questions from the website
This scheme is fully backed by the English Chess Federation
When I spoke to you on the phone and I asked if this was your project (Renaissance Academy) you stated it was "Totally an ECF project". The statement on the website does not endorse that view. Is this just a mistake in wording?


we are delighted to work alongside the Chess for Schools Academy
I take the we as Holloid Plastics and that the Chess for Schools Academy is a central organisation for the control of the coaching, is this correct?

Thankyou for finally answering Ernie's questions.
Does it say Agencies are being told anything, no. LEAs damand it in most areas. We have to come up to the same (if not better as new boy on the block) standard as the competition (football, rugby, tennis) whos coaches are listed and registered. It makes it harder when you add words that are not there.

On the Chess for Schools web site it will only have the Renaissance Academy as a sponsor, for product I.E.: Me.

The Chess for Schools Academy is the ECF. I can't even explain this to chess players, what chance does some one new to the chess world have. Its not my site or remit. I have at no point had any solid input into the Chess for Schools site apart from to get the registation page up.
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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Paul Stimpson » Tue May 20, 2008 4:25 pm

Justin,

Ernie had unanswered questions from at least 24 hours ago. Charles seems to spend most of his time on here so it's surprising he chose to ignore Ernie for so long.

Justin Hadi

Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Justin Hadi » Tue May 20, 2008 4:43 pm

Paul,

Which questions are those? The three you are referring to are from 1.07pm today.

Justin

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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Justin Hadi » Tue May 20, 2008 4:47 pm

I can't imagine it's easy running a distribution project and answering a plethora of questions at the same time. Why don't you try it?

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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Charles W. Wood » Tue May 20, 2008 4:59 pm

Justin Hadi wrote:I can't imagine it's easy running a distribution project and answering a plethora of questions at the same time. Why don't you try it?
Hi Justin

Your right about the speed in which the answers are required is a bit off putting. But the questions them selves are mostly helpful, and have even changed the direct of parts of the project.

As I speak I'm on the phone holding for an MD of a possible sponsor. After 5.30pm and business shuts down I will be sending time contacting friends in the Printing Industry to try and answer/put some options to "how to put our sponsors name forward on the box going to the schools". At the moment we are planning to print direct onto the outer box but there could well be a better way. So head down "sky blue thinking".
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Re: Free Chess Sets for schools

Post by Justin Hadi » Tue May 20, 2008 5:15 pm

I didn't say the questions were bad, just that the expectations were off.

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