Coaching

Discussions regarding the 70,000 Free Chess Sets for Schools in England.
Paul McKeown
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Re: Coaching

Post by Paul McKeown » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:00 pm

Ernie,
Perhaps you're right - it takes one to recognise one - and you seem to have spotted me a long way off. I heard that policemen sometimes arrest people, just to get in out the rain. Ah well, each to their own.
Kisses,
Paul.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Coaching

Post by Carl Hibbard » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:03 pm

Ok so enough Children it's almost Christmas and I am getting bored - if there is a point then make it without getting into the mud slinging phase :shock:
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

andrew martin

Re: Coaching

Post by andrew martin » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:05 pm

I think I get the message about appointing ECF Assistant Coaches; nevertheless that is the way I am going to go should these elusive sets ever materialize. It is a sensible way forward.

In all seriousness, having watched this debate grow, I am now absolutely clear in my mind about the necessity of strict checks in place, including Photo ID for EVERY ECF Coach , Accredited or Assistant from now on.

So something good is coming out of it.

Andrew

David Robertson
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Re: Coaching

Post by David Robertson » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:07 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:Presumably David you are a support of anarchy when the ones with the biggest fists and biggest mouths rule the roost!
Nope, I don't think I'd survive long under a system of anarchy. I'm a firm supporter of participative democracy, freedom of speech and accountability under the law. But I'm also an unyielding critic of incompetence and unprofessionalism. Both waste good peoples' time, sometimes worse, and frustrate those who try to do the Good Thing.

David
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Louise Sinclair
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Re: Coaching

Post by Louise Sinclair » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:35 pm

Ernie did not contradict himself. The Cleveland problem was mainly caused by a lunatic doctor who used dubious methods to diagnose abuse in children too young to speak for themselves.The Police couldn't win - had the claims been correct the Police would have been censured for not acting promptly.
I come from a family where we do not have a great love for the Police (as an institution) due to a few connections. My father knows quite a few "faces" and our choice of legal advice came from a Solicitors called Campions made up of ex Police. However in general we hold right wing views and do not have a dislike and contempt for every person who happens to belong to the police force.Neither do we assume that a Police man is not as intelligent as a criminal.
In fact a friend of my father's dealt with an abuser by taking him to Epping Forest pulling down his lower garments and dowsing him in parrafin. I don't think the culprit repeated his actions and the average old fashioned copper wouldn't have been that bothered by the punishment.
I see here that Ernie is getting it in the neck not for what he is saying - but ill conceived prejudice from others causes them to start an ill natured rant because Ernie was a Police Man and Ernie is concerned about potential child abuse within the ECF.
Many of you would rather blame the bearer of bad news then examine the possible dangers caused by inaction and smugness.
Having been arrested and held in custody on three occasions I can state the following - there are decent Policemen and awful ones - just like any profession.
Louise
You might very well think that ; I couldn't possibly comment.
' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

David Robertson
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Re: Coaching

Post by David Robertson » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:48 pm

Louise Sinclair wrote:a friend of my father's dealt with an abuser by taking him to Epping Forest pulling down his lower garments and dowsing him in parrafin. I don't think the culprit repeated his actions and the average old fashioned copper wouldn't have been that bothered by the punishment
Perhaps not. But the courts would. Pyromania is a condition sectionable under Mental Health Acts. And damage to private property, including underwear, is viewed very seriously indeed by the courts. Moreover environmental protection legislation protects trees from wanton destruction. A properly trained copper would arrest your father's friend and charge him under several articles of law, not the least of which would be violations of public decency and proto-sexual assault. A social worker would be assigned to the victim of this outrage; counselling would almost certainly be offered; and reforestation arranged.

Beware the peoples' justice - it isn't justice!

David
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Louise Sinclair
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Re: Coaching

Post by Louise Sinclair » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:53 pm

David
I must reassure you - the trees were undamaged and as for the underwear this had been pulled down. I think some pubic hair might have been singed in the process.
The guy didn't bother the girl again.
Louise
You might very well think that ; I couldn't possibly comment.
' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Coaching

Post by Carl Hibbard » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:55 pm

andrew martin wrote:I think I get the message about appointing ECF Assistant Coaches; nevertheless that is the way I am going to go should these elusive sets ever materialize. It is a sensible way forward.
I presume the ECF office will close for Christmas sometime soon and no web site updates on state of play at Holloid will be forthcoming??
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

andrew martin

Re: Coaching

Post by andrew martin » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:13 pm

I wish I could give everyone some news. I am sorry that I can't. If things were good,something would have been said by now though. I will try to find out.

Andrew

Paul McKeown
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Re: Coaching

Post by Paul McKeown » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:35 pm

I see here that Ernie is getting it in the neck not for what he is saying - but ill conceived prejudice from others causes them to start an ill natured rant because Ernie was a Police Man and Ernie is concerned about potential child abuse within the ECF.
Louise,

I'm sure you have much admiration from the readers and contributors to this forum for the brave way in which you have come forward about such a sensitive issue.

However, I would disagree with you as to why "Ernie is getting it in the neck". It's not because he wishes to deal with abuse, nor because he is a policeman, it's because he seems to believe the police are above democratic oversight, that anyone who suggests that the public should exercise oversight and control over policing is a dangerous third internationalist dedicated to overthrowing the country's constitutional order and that anyone who suggests that caution be exercised in flinging around accusations is a bleeding heart liberal, a crook, a paedo or even all three. Not only is not because Ernie is a policeman, but he seems to wield the bacon word in such a way as to preclude any argument; he uses it, no else does. In fact he is the expert, no one else's opinion need be heard.

Abuse is a serious issue; it requires serious discussion, not browbeating.

As to your anecdote about the alleged abuser being doused in paraffin, might I ask you how many people have been seriously harmed because of vigilanteeism, whether from the public, press or the police? Or indeed how many innocents have been hanged in the past because officers of the law were prepared to short circuit the process because they knew better? We all think we know who needs a good kicking, after all.

Louise Sinclair
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Re: Coaching

Post by Louise Sinclair » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:52 pm

Paul
The person was not an alleged abuser he was caught in the act.
I don't get the impression that Ernie believes the Police are omnipotent. I think he believes that society would be in a worse position without a Police Force.
I have an intense dislike for the former Police chief Sir Ian Blair. He is very political and allowed New Labour to advertise on Police cars in the run up to the last election. I thought this was an arrogant action of a politically biased Policeman.
However I know a Detective in the kidnap division of Scotland Yard and I like the guy - certainly I couldn't see myself calling him the names I have uttered when reading about Blair in The Telegraph.
There is a very fine balance between the right of the public to oversee the Police and for the Police to get on with their job without undue political interference.
As I understand it the current Government are intent on politicising the Police and have a greater interest in diversity and political correctness rather then good thorough training in crime prevention and detection.
I would rather see an effective Police Force that operated using common sense rather then a politicised version which the public are having forced upon them.
The Police are often viewed these days as a tool of New Labour and I'm certain that quite a few coppers would just wish to get on with their work unhindered by those politically correct lunatics in Government.
Louise
You might very well think that ; I couldn't possibly comment.
' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

Paul McKeown
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Re: Coaching

Post by Paul McKeown » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:55 pm

Louise - I think we are in danger of losing the thread here...

Louise Sinclair
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Re: Coaching

Post by Louise Sinclair » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:57 pm

Paul
In the politest way - you just mentioned Police and public accountabilty so I replied
Louise
You might very well think that ; I couldn't possibly comment.
' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

Paul McKeown
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Re: Coaching

Post by Paul McKeown » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:04 pm

No Louise - the drift was that disagreeing with Eric Lazenby incurred his disdain; his view is that he is the expert, others know nothing. Nothing to do with political diatribe.

Louise Sinclair
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Re: Coaching

Post by Louise Sinclair » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:09 pm

Paul
Earlier in the thread I disagreed with Ernie and didn't notice a disdainful response
Louise
You might very well think that ; I couldn't possibly comment.
' you turn if you want. The lady's not for turning'

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