Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Richard Bates
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:06 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:34 pm
Carl Portman wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:30 pm
I knew you would be first to post (negatively of course) and just won £10 on the bet.
Who took the other side?
Surprised the odds weren’t prohibitive.

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Carl Portman
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Carl Portman » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:07 am

Paul Robson wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:08 pm
Hi Carl , Sorry to take a while to reply had a surgical procedure today. Just to clarify I was not inferring any candidate was party to anything so apologies if you picked it up that way. I regard both you and Tim to have integrity. I was simply pointing out how it reads to me. Perhaps I should have said “with job-interviews”,Rather than “ in job interviews as that’s what I meant. But if there has been a totally independent review to the full satisfaction of yourself,Tim and others then that’s fine. I am also not going to fall out with you over it ,(and hope your not with me) .
In answer to your question above and to be crystal clear as requested .. No that is not what I was saying Carl

Happy discuss or clarify further if needed

Thank you for that Paul. No need to clarify further. I have many faults (don't we all) but accepting jobs in an underhand way is not one of them, that's just a fact. I don't expect everyone to believe me because life is not like that but on issues as important as this I will challenge anyone who suggests otherwise. There were NO deals. Period. I will end it there because there's no more I can say. We have known each other for many years, though we don't actually know one another that well...I hope our next exchange is over the chessboard somewhere.

Here's to chess.

David Robertson
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by David Robertson » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:11 pm

To hurry this thread on a bit, can we move straight to libel writs, please

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JustinHorton
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:39 am

OK, let me scratch the itch a bit.

The whole controversy seems to me to revolve around the fact that the Credo document is phrased as a job acceptance letter. In the section of the report devoted to the document, it says:
Mr Portman further explained: “I stated at my interview, when I handed over the paperwork, that I did not wish to appear to be arrogant by assuming that I would get the job. I said that this was merely the document (including the line about me being delighted to get the job) that
I would use if I was successful.”
This is OK, I think (though it's something of an eccentric way to go about things, and one that's caused no end of trouble) and everybody's account of their actions seems perfectly reasonable.

But you don't get much, if any, sense from the report of how it must have looked to the Complainant to suddenly see, four weeks later, what to all intents and purposes was an acceptance letter dated some time before the decision had took place. I mean, what was he supposed to think? Maybe some consideration along those lines might have been more appropriate that the tone the report did in fact take.

A minor point of procedure - I can't see any suggestion that Dr Greep or Mr Woodhouse were asked if they recalled Mr Portman speaking as per the quote above. I'm not saying that he didn't - just observing that if Party A says they said X to Parties B and C, wouldn't it be normal to aak Parties B and C for their recollection?
Last edited by JustinHorton on Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mick Norris
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:13 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:19 pm
"The early lack of transparency is clear and as Kevin T said. I too have never taken an acceptance letter to a job interview"

Actually, I was quoting somebody else... I did say that it was reasonable to take along a document saying what you would do if you got the job. The report in this case said the interviewers didn't look at it.

I have had a number of interviews where it was obvious that the decision had been made already (sometimes in my favour, sometimes not). Did Tim Wall get that impression?

I was also surprised there were only two interviewers.
I got the impression from Tim's initial post on this thread that he thought that being asked to put his name forward, in the way he was asked, led him to believe he would get the job
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:43 pm

"I got the impression from Tim's initial post on this thread that he thought that being asked to put his name forward, in the way he was asked, led him to believe he would get the job"

Possibly - but I remember being asked to apply for a post at work and thought it was just so they could appoint the person they wanted and then say "it was a competitive interview process". So it could work the other way. Or of course they could be inviting two strong candidates and deciding which one to select...

Tim Spanton
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Tim Spanton » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:02 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:43 pm
"I got the impression from Tim's initial post on this thread that he thought that being asked to put his name forward, in the way he was asked, led him to believe he would get the job"

Possibly - but I remember being asked to apply for a post at work and thought it was just so they could appoint the person they wanted and then say "it was a competitive interview process". So it could work the other way. Or of course they could be inviting two strong candidates and deciding which one to select...
This thread is descending into the realms of fantasy.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:31 am

It is perhaps time to bring this thread to an end.
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Paul Cooksey » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:24 am

Carl Hibbard wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:31 am
It is perhaps time to bring this thread to an end.
Maybe the ECF matters board too?

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:01 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:24 am
Carl Hibbard wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:31 am
It is perhaps time to bring this thread to an end.
Maybe the ECF matters board too?
Why?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Michael Farthing » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:27 am

I think Paul's question mark gives the clue that he is intentionally being a bit mischievous with this suggestion.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Carl Hibbard » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:37 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:27 am
I think Paul's question mark gives the clue that he is intentionally being a bit mischievous with this suggestion.
Actually no he is serious but he can explain if he wishes.
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Carl Hibbard

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:17 pm

Sometimes a question mark is just punctuation. Anyone who cares has heard me explain my position on the ECF meta-discussion several times.

Maybe Carl is asking if anyone objects to him closing this thread before someone else says something else that causes him hassle. If so my response is that I think it will pop up somewhere else instead. If a relatively senior member of the CSC, erm, nexus, is going to continue to pursue such a serious dispute with the ECF CEO it will prompt discussion.

Carl's light moderation is probably a reason the forum keeps going. But as a regular contributor, I get annoyed when people do silly things which undermine the value of the forum. If you'd like to libel someone, why not do it on your own site rather than Carl's? I'd prefer it, and even if he is too polite to say so, I suspect Carl would too.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Carl Hibbard » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:42 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:17 pm
Carl's light moderation is probably a reason the forum keeps going. But as a regular contributor, I get annoyed when people do silly things which undermine the value of the forum. If you'd like to libel someone, why not do it on your own site rather than Carl's? I'd prefer it, and even if he is too polite to say so, I suspect Carl would too.
No happy to say so too it would make my life easier. :D
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Alan Kennedy
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Re: Complaint to ECF Board about CEO Mike Truran re. Development Officer appointment

Post by Alan Kennedy » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Alan Kennedy wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:38 pm
My concern with all of this rancour is that chess administrators may be put off by the sheer amount of hassle it creates and just give up. Also, as the ECF has a complaints process i fail to see the need to air the issues in such detail until that process has at least finished. That would allow the rest of us to get on with the challenging business of developing chess both at our clubs and in the country!
I see Carl has resigned. It would appear that my coment was well founded. a gentle reminder that chess admin is a thankless task and it would be good if the complaint level was outweighted by the amount of praise given. it just means life for administrators slightly less unpleasant.

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