Peter Markland

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
NickFaulks
Posts: 6138
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Peter Markland

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:39 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:02 am
I know that FIDE occasionally awards an Honorary Grandmaster title.
Only once this century, in 2003.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Paul McKeown
Posts: 3495
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)
Contact:

Re: Peter Markland

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:37 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:39 pm
Paul McKeown wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:02 am
I know that FIDE occasionally awards an Honorary Grandmaster title.
Only once this century, in 2003.

"very occasionally" then...

What are the circumstances that have lead to this title being awarded to a few players?

NickFaulks
Posts: 6138
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Peter Markland

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:56 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:37 pm
What are the circumstances that have lead to this title being awarded to a few players?
Before my time, but I would assume political machinations.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 4196
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Peter Markland

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:20 pm

"Before my time, but I would assume political machinations."

I know you're the FIDE expert (and I am not), but I assumed that after the norm-based titles came in, it was felt that historically some players had missed out, and would have achieved the titles under the new rules. Am I being over charitable there?

I'm sure politics also came into it - I seem to recall a couple of players being made GMs as "it was good for their countries".

NickFaulks
Posts: 6138
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Peter Markland

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:54 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:20 pm
I know you're the FIDE expert (and I am not), but I assumed that after the norm-based titles came in, it was felt that historically some players had missed out, and would have achieved the titles under the new rules.
Very few got the title without a reasonable claim to it. Many equally deserving cases didn't get it. The decision process was rather opaque.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 3576
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Peter Markland

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:04 pm

IIRC there is only one "honorary" GM still alive - our own Penrose.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

John McKenna
Posts: 4393
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Peter Markland

Post by John McKenna » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:05 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:04 pm
IIRC there is only one "honorary" GM still alive - our own Penrose.
Apparently he's not so "honorary", Matt.
Leonard Barden wrote:
Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:40 am
Penrose became a GM and not the inferior honorary version. How it happened is through another of Bob Wade's services to English chess...

SNIP

I see that Wikipedia and other sources call Penrose HGM or GM emeritus, but they are wrong.
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=632&start=15#p7787
Last edited by John McKenna on Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Paul McKeown
Posts: 3495
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)
Contact:

Re: Peter Markland

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:45 am

The good news is that the title application has now been passed on to FIDE. Efficient work by the IRO, Dave Clayton!

Paul McKeown
Posts: 3495
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)
Contact:

Re: Peter Markland

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:53 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:39 pm
Only once this century, in 2003.
Which brought me to this wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmast ... andmasters.

Quoting from that:

Code: Select all

From 1977 until 2003, FIDE awarded honorary Grandmaster titles to 31 players based on their past performances
or other contributions to chess. Since 2007, no distinction has been made between an "honorary" grandmaster
and a full grandmaster. The following players have been awarded honorary Grandmaster titles:

    1977 – Julio Bolbochán, Esteban Canal, Borislav Milić, Carlos Torre Repetto
    1981 – Arnold Denker
    1982 – Lodewijk Prins, Raúl Sanguinetti
    1983 – Vladimir Alatortsev, Alexander Konstantinopolsky, Erik Lundin
    1984 – Eero Böök, Stojan Puc
    1985 – Harry Golombek, Mario Monticelli, Jaroslav Šajtar
    1986 – Arthur Dake, Theodor Ghițescu
    1987 – Vladimir Makogonov, Vladas Mikėnas, Bogdan Śliwa
    1988 – George Koltanowski
    1990 – Andrija Fuderer, Rudolf Marić
    1991 – Dragoljub Minić
    1992 – Heinz Lehmann, Rudolf Teschner
    1993 – Jonathan Penrose (Leonard Barden claims Penrose was awarded the full grandmaster title).[19][20]
    1996 – Károly Honfi, Enrico Paoli
    1999 – Péter Dely
    2003 – Elmārs Zemgalis
A fairly distinguished group, on the whole. Hard to argue that Denker, Mikenas, Koltanowski or Teschner were not of the standard expected of a grandmaster. No doubt they all had perfectly valid reasons as to why they did not achieve the title by normal means.

Looking at the current FIDE title regulations (https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/B01Regulations2017), it would appear that there is no longer a mechanism by which FIDE bestows an Honorary Grandmaster title (appear perhaps from Presidential or Board fiat - I wouldn't know what their reserved powers are).

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 3576
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Peter Markland

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:40 pm

And there were certainly other players - from the former USSR especially - who could easily have gained such an accolade but didn't.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

John Upham
Posts: 5056
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: Peter Markland

Post by John Upham » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:45 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:04 pm
IIRC there is only one "honorary" GM still alive - our own Penrose.
Incorrect. JPs GM title (awarded in 1994) was not "honorary".

HGs, of course, was.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Post Reply