ECF Annual General Meeting 13 October 2012

[John Upham]

There is a correlation between grading and chess experience.

Really? What is it?

There are plenty of highly experienced chess administrators with no published or low gradings.

There are plenty of quickly improving youngsters with high gradings and only a couple or so years chess experience.

Please clarify what you believe the correlation measures to be?

[Roger de Coverly]

I am not sure why Adam was treated this way.

Council members have a sense of their own importance ( include exaggerated if you wish). Two years ago, they turned on Malcolm Pein when it was revealed that he wouldn't be reading all the board papers which are expected to be scrutinised by the non-Execs. Was it not also revealed that Malcolm wouldn't attend Board or Council meetings?

There would have been an element of this with Adam. Some members of Council might have welcomed a hard line approach on membership but no-one actually knew what he would be proposing. There was no statement on the ECF site, he didn't attend in person, and if there was a proxy, he or she wasn't privy to the plans. The perceived lack of activity working on behalf of the ECF from the immediately previous Marketing Director may also have been an issue. The parallel that both promote their own events may not have been lost on the voters.

The Bristol report notes

The main reason, for my part, for voting ‘none of the above’ was that he offered no election address, was unable to appear on the day (he was organising a rapidplay event.), and offered no details to his proxy of his plans for the role. The key here is the Membership part. I know this is probably the most important issue for a lot of local players at the moment, and by one means or another, details should’ve been provided of his plans to that end. To vote to elect with no knowledge of his plans for this area was too great a risk, in my opinion.

[Roger de Coverly]

[Please clarify what you believe the correlation measures to be?

You may think different, but if I had a vote, I would not impressed whatever their protestations to be new brooms by candidates for contested elections for CEO and President who had played between them, one competitive game of chess in the previous season.

You can meet chess administrators and arbiters, who delight in making up rules. When they attempt to apply these rules to competitions of which they have no practical experience, I say "hands off".

[Steve Rooney]

In the absence of a CEO, my immediate thoughts are for the paid employees. Whilst it might be superficially pleasant to have no-one to report to, it is clearly not desirable for staff or members. I imagine the rather diminished board will do its best to plug the gap quickly, and I'm sure that in the interim the staff will continue to do a very professional job, but hopefully it won't be a situation that continues for long.

The other outcome of a bizarre AGM is that it exposes the voting system of the federation for the nonsense that it is. I note that the focus is now on the move to charitable status, but I would much rather the emphasis was on using the new membership system as the launchpad to get a proper one-member-one-vote franchise in place as soon as possible.

[John Upham]

You can meet chess administrators and arbiters, who delight in making up rules. When they attempt to apply these rules to competitions of which they have no practical experience, I say "hands off".

Another assertion without facts to back it up.

Examples would help but I doubt if you will come-up with any.

Do you meet these alleged people or it for others to meet them?

[Roger de Coverly]

Examples would help but I doubt if you will come-up with any.

Zero time default is an obvious example. How many of the supporters of this in the FIDE General Assembly play regularly in leagues or Congresses as we know them?

[John Upham]

Zero time default is an obvious example.

What was the Elo rating of the person who came up with this rule? (God knows why I am asking this stupid question!)

How many of the supporters of this in the FIDE General Assembly play regularly in leagues or Congresses as we know them?

Examples from England not Outer Mongolia or The North Pole would be useful. Do you have any?

[Roger de Coverly]

What was the Elo rating of the person who came up with this rule?

It was supported by the FIDE president who doesn't have a rating.

Also one of his sidekicks with a rating of 2172 introduced it at the Dresden Olympiad
http://ratings.fide.com/id.phtml?event=5800242
It's an active rating, but only a handful of games in the last ten years.

Examples from England not Outer Mongolia or The North Pole would be useful. Do you have any?

How about the continued resistance to the abolition of adjudications and adjournments in some parts of the country?

My basic point remains. If I had a vote, I would be reluctant to support for general office a person who I felt lacked chess experience. That includes not just playing, but also studying chess as well, which plausibly correlates with grade at the lower ends of the scale.

[John Upham]

How about the continued resistance to the abolition of adjudications and adjournments in some parts of the country?

What is the grading distribution of those who like adjournments compared with those who don't?

Is this another random assertion of yours?

[E Michael White]

RdeC is broadly correct here. Arbiters in general and those with little or no playing experience often like to make up rules or frame their own interpretation of rules to make names for themselves.

Recently on this forum Alex Holowczak seemed on the verge of introducing an interpretation that ticking off moves when in time trouble was illegal. Fortunately experiemced players were able to disuade him from this view.

Also going further back arbiters Alex McFarlane and Jack Rudd were suggesting a player must not move before their opponent has pressed their clock following their previous move. Whilst Jack Rudd is a high level experienced player his time trouble experience comes from an aparallel world where moving clocks run too slowly. Again more experienced players were able to point out the current correct rule interpretation.

[Roger de Coverly]

What is the grading distribution of those who like adjournments compared with those who don't?

Those who have regular fights on this issue at their AGMs would know better than I would. But is it not the case that the top divisions of leagues with multiple options, find that the G/90 solution or equivalents is the one preferred by most of the players?
Is it not also the case that those in favour of the "old ways of adjudication" are those who mostly don't play outside the league in question? This being my point about breadth of experience.

[John Upham]

It was supported by the FIDE president who doesn't have a rating.

What is the minimum rating required to make good administrative decisions?

Do those with high ratings make good administrators?

[Roger de Coverly]

What is the minimum rating required to make good administrative decisions?

Do those with high ratings make good administrators?

That isn't really the question and I don't know where the word "administrator" comes into it. If you have no experience of playing international chess at all, or only at a low standard of skill, these are evidenced by a non-existence of a rating or a low rating. It is my contention that one should be cautious about appointing such people into senior positions of chess management by virtue of their lack of experience. They will be the ones making decisions and directing policy.

[John Upham]

It is my contention that one should be cautious about appointing such people into senior positions of chess management by virtue of their lack of experience. They will be the ones making decisions and directing policy.

What would you suggest as the rating lower cut-off for "making decisions and directing policy"?

2300?
2000?
2500?

[Ernie Lazenby]

RDC said '' It is my contention that one should be cautious about appointing such people into senior positions of chess management by virtue of their lack of experience. They will be the ones making decisions and directing policy''.

That has to be one of the least considered posts I have read from Roger who otherwise does make some good points.
In many walks of life people hold top administrative positions who otherwise do not excell at the grass root activity. A good administrator uses those who have the knowledge of grass root activities/problems to advance the organisation/solve problems.I dont see why someone cannot hold a top position simply because as a chess player he or she enjoyed the game at lower levels.
Indeed I rather suspect that many top players would make very poor chess administrators. Being a top players just makes them what they are, top chess players and no more.