The British itself!

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Jonathan Rogers
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:30 am

Matthew Turner wrote: ....

So David and Jonathan playing off for the title.
Not, see above

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:39 am

Richard Pert thinking about 4 e4 presumably; but again the impression is that Hawkins has surprised his opponent with his choice of opening

Stewart Reuben
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:40 am

It is true Jon Speelmn was a GM since 1980. I had forgotten. Murray Chandler did not become a GM until 1983. I doubt Jon played on board 1 in the last round of the British in 1981 and that is what Christopher's question was about.
Then people have turned the discussion to the question of the relative strength of the British Championship. That is fruitless unless you have an agreed definition. 7 GMs in 2014 was unquestionably stronger at the top than in 1981. The British has been deliberately dumbed down at the bottom this century.
Thus, if you defined the strength by the average playing strength you will get a very peculiar result. If you define the strength by the median that is another answer. I am sure there are others. Then it used to be a 12 player all-play-all. Later it became a maximum of 32 player Swiss. You are not comparing like with like.
Since the British is an international event, why are people using English grades as the basic unit?

Whoever wins the British thus year - which has just about started - will have had a wonderful result. One that they can be proud of for the rest of their life.

Chris Rice
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Chris Rice » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:42 am

R Pert - Hawkins doesn't look like it's going to be a draw or at least not a quick one.
Last edited by Chris Rice on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Matthew Turner
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:42 am

Surely this is a bizarre choice of opening from Hawkins?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:48 am

Stewart Reuben wrote: Since the British is an international event, why are people using English grades as the basic unit?
Ratings under 2200 are all over the place. In order to qualify for the British, you need a decent score in a weekend event. Usually that requires players to be 180 plus.

When the cutoff for International ratings was 2000, many players were 2000 plus, but 180 minus. Before that the players in the lower half of the British wouldn't have had International ratings anyway.

I think the point being made was that if you look at the field using ECF grades, the second half doesn't look as poorly rated as it appears with FIDE ratings.

Chris Rice
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Chris Rice » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:49 am

Matthew Turner wrote:Surely this is a bizarre choice of opening from Hawkins?
Maybe he doesn't want to share the title?

John McKenna

Re: The British itself!

Post by John McKenna » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:55 am

In Pert,R-Hawkins,J... 12.Nf3 Nh6, I was expecting 12.O-O-O O-O-O!?

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:57 am

Modern Life is so confusing.

The last round of the British starting at 9:30am. Play at the British on a Sunday (two of them, no less). Test Matches starting on a Sunday.

I’m thinking of starting a Let’s Put Everything Back Like It Used To Be club.



Agree with the points made about elo ratings being problematic as a way of measuring chess strength. Particularly difficult to compare across time periods. That said, the bottom end of the British has clearly got more shallow over time.

Mind you, while I haven’t examined the figures closely, my impression is that the lower numbers has actually improved the balance of the field. And, as Stewart says, winning remains a fine achievement.
Last edited by Jonathan Bryant on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chris Rice
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Chris Rice » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:57 am

Has Howell been moved ordered? Can't believe he's still thinking what to do on move 4.

Matthew Turner
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:59 am

I was expecting Rd1 with one idea of Rd8 Qa3, but maybe 0-0-0 is the answer to Rd1 as well. It must be Hawkins preparation judging by the clock times.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:01 am

Matthew Turner wrote: David Howell has White, he'll know what to expect from Mark
At the time of writing, the game has gone 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Be7 and now Howell is thinking.

Whilst Hebden is normally a Two Knights man, he played 3. .. Be7 in last year's British against Howell himself. I suppose we'll never really know why players with Howell's time handling style don't decide what they are going to play before the game starts.

(edit) After 4. d4 d6 5. dxe5 dxe5, David Howell is in danger of being an hour behind on the club. (/edit)
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nick Ivell
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Nick Ivell » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:08 am

Hawkins has been by far the best player, and deserves to win outright. Is it just me, or has he sharpened up his style? I have seen him at many a weekender grinding out wins in the endgame, and occasionally suffering stodgy draws as Black against weaker players. In this tournament he seems transformed. I get the feeling he is the best prepared of all the leading players. Only last-week jitters have prevented him running away with this.

Matthew Turner
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:20 am

Matthew Turner wrote:I was expecting Rd1 with one idea of Rd8 Qa3, but maybe 0-0-0 is the answer to Rd1 as well. It must be Hawkins preparation judging by the clock times.
Rd1 played and Hawkins has responded with Rd8 after a think but now Stockfish is giving Qa3 with roughly a pawn advantage

Matthew Turner
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Re: The British itself!

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:25 am

Stockfish's assessment has come right down and after Bc8 it is not saying roughly equal and recommending Nd2 for White
Last edited by Matthew Turner on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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