British Championship Congress 2019

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Matt Bridgeman
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:59 pm

I’m presuming you mean the relevance of Charlie’s comment about IM’s in Australia cheating. I don’t personally know of any cheating scandals over there, but when we were playing in some South Australian weekend and club chess competitions, they seemed reasonably hot on mobile phone being switched off, and being kept in bags, etc back in 2014 and 2015. Although I think Ian Rogers may have alluded to something or other having happened, he didn’t give details.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:00 pm

Charlie Storey wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:18 pm

I am also aware that in Australia the largest 'type' of Chess Cheaters are International Masters.
Would you care to elaborate?

Geoff Chandler
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Geoff Chandler » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:51 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:13 am
Martin Benjamin wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:38 pm


Great result for Tom Villiers - Tom has an uncanny ability to induce blunders from strong opponents and it happened again today with Daniel Fernandez's 52...Kc5 ??
You are not kidding there, I played 4ncl in the same team as Tom one season and he managed to win 6 games from worse positions when his opponents made massive unforced blunders - the force is strong with him!
The round one game. Thomas Villiers vs Daniel Howard Fernandez

The moves from the official site show that here.



Black played 59...Rf6(?) surely it is 59...Rxf7+.

Or did he play 59...Rf6 and agreeing a draw is another induced blunder by his opponent.

Reg Clucas
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Reg Clucas » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:11 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:14 pm
Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:01 pm
Ah yes, early starts on the last day.

Something that I have always found abominable :twisted:
And so say all of us.
Not all of us! I'd be happier with an early start every day. And I dare say I'm not the only one who finds it harder to stay awake in the afternoon than in the morning.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:44 pm

I don't like early starts tbh, but its having a *different* earlier time for the last game that really bugs me.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

NickFaulks
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:41 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:44 pm
I don't like early starts tbh, but its having a *different* earlier time for the last game that really bugs me.
Yes, that was my point.

John Reyes
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by John Reyes » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:46 pm

As a chess player and also a Darts Referee, there is also two side of a story, but I did feel that two of your commons did strike me as interested
I am also aware that in Australia the largest 'type' of Chess Cheaters are International Masters.

I am not saying Lorin cheated at all, however, when you see a player march out of a tournament hall with a bag it does play havoc with your own emotions and thoughts as to fair play; especially, after seeing all of this incredible imagery of Grandmasters hiding in cubicles over the past few months, players being scanned at this event for mobiles each round.

My own thoughts at the board were that Lorin was heading to the out of bound toilets for players (This may not have been true but was my thoughts at the board as he had already disappeared from view on at least one other occasion whilst his bag remained under the table), with a bag that I had been told was not to be moved. The position at the board was extremely complicated at move 20 and I wanted to ensure Fair Play even in that moment I had wondered if he had went to the out of bounds for player toilets) ay was being enforced. The out of bounds toilets were also near the Players Coffee drinks. I waited 2 minutes - the time I had assessed to take a drink from the fast track players lane and Lorin did not arrive back so I then informed the arbiter that my opponent had taken his bag and I wanted to ensure there was no mobile phone in his bag. After 15 minutes had elapsed the arbiter informed me that I had 'won' as he had found a Mobile Phone in his bag. I then suggested Lorin should resign to avoid what would be inevitable fall out which would create both him and me inevitable tournament stress. I believe Lorin took this the wrong way claiming "I only wanted the rating points" I was disappointed with this comment as I had already 'won' and with it the rating points, I then asked if I could leave the situation and return to the board and the arbiter agreed. the reason I suggested this as like many other players I have a lot of respect for Lorin (Although his comment in this thread took a dent to that). I still have a lot of respect for Lorin and I will put our mutual respect and friendship on hold until I see an apology for attacking and accusing me of things that are not true. If he cannot apologise then it is unlikely we will have a beer together and I will reduce any further interaction to that of being civil.

As there was no further investigation in to whether a mobile phone was used by Lorin in the out of bounds cubicles then I have resolved in my own head that there is no evidence at all to suggest he used a mobile phone that was on his person and it was a rare act of stupidity / forgetfulness and it was entirely his own fault and neither myself nor the arbiters have any fault. Anyone disagreeing with this position I would suggest arbiters take a close look at such players and their ethics at the board - paying special attention to persons in this thread who chose to attack a player who simply requested an explanation why a player had taken his bag out of sight of players and arbiters - An entirely reasonable and appropriate request.
what he did was wrong, but at the same time you actions after was out in order in my views, and also maybe your ethics of saying that you was also aware that in Australia the largest 'type' of Chess Cheaters are International Masters.

I don't know Lorin but I know in the past you has issues with Alex and Sarah over the junior chess issues and if I was Lorin, I feel that his commons was justify as I would have maybe reaction the same way if you accused me of cheating, and I don't think you will get a apology as i will quote on page 20 from these commons from Lorin
Just outside of the playing hall, Mr Storey says with strong conviction to the arbiters 'I don't want you to default him, I want him to go in there and resign'. I asked why, and he said 'to save your reputation'.
I am sure you can imagine I was rather surprised and not impressed by Mr Storey's behaviour. Even after he walked away the arbiter admitted 'that it was ridiculous' behaviour from Mr Storey. He said it in a cold, hard way which was accompanied by a strong and aggressive stare towards me, which he held for quite some time.
If we are going to talk about reputation, it should be ironic that I am told to 'save my reputation' by Mr Storey when he himself has such throughout British chess (and further). To be spoken about to my face by a fellow competitor was not only deeply disappointing, but his aggressive behaviour came out of nowhere. Possibly he has some pent up feeling towards me, given we are both coaches as well as for the England Juniors abroad, and views me as some kind of threat or rival for his coaching business. I can assure Mr Storey that he need not give me the time of day in the future, his 'reputation' certainly in my eyes has been extremely tarnished.
I feel it correct to give my side of events today, and would like to say that I will look back on my return to the British Championships from a 17 year absence with 'fond' memories. Please do not expect a further response from me, this will be my last and only post on this forum-it might even be my final ever FIDE rated game I play in England. I still play chess for enjoyment, and not to compete with certain characters who will act in such a way. Friendliness and manners go a long way with me, Mr Storey should think about that when he is competing in the future..
i am happy to hear your commons and also someone who has suffer Mental health

John Reyes Common chess player and Also Darts Marker for the PDC (I have marked over 10000 legs of darts and also have marker FIVE 9 darters with Simon Whitlock in 2015 to my last one in 2018 with Nathan Aspinall Winner of the Chorlton Chess Club Club Tournament and winner of the last ever Manchester Novice congress and one half of the ECF Silver Members Rep as well as other rep for other leagues etc
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Neil Graham
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Neil Graham » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:49 pm

Some pages back Alex McFarlane gave the reasons why the arbiter forfeited Lorin D'Costa in his game with Charlie Storey.

This matter should be closed now. I can see no reason why there is endless debate, especially from people who were not at the tournament and involved. The Laws of Chess were correctly invoked and that should be the end of the matter. Am I bothered about reading anything more about this? The answer is a resounding "No!"

Chris Rice
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:19 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:49 pm
Some pages back Alex McFarlane gave the reasons why the arbiter forfeited Lorin D'Costa in his game with Charlie Storey.

This matter should be closed now. I can see no reason why there is endless debate, especially from people who were not at the tournament and involved. The Laws of Chess were correctly invoked and that should be the end of the matter. Am I bothered about reading anything more about this? The answer is a resounding "No!"
I agree that a line should be drawn on this matter except on the comment that Charlie made subsequent to Alex McFarlane's explanation:

"I am also aware that in Australia the largest 'type' of Chess Cheaters are International Masters."

This may have been written in the heat of the moment but it either needs to be explained by Charlie or retracted. There aren't that many Aussie IMs, I think its something like 26, so its a specific comment to make yet I'm not aware that any of them have ever been accused of anything before in this regard.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:39 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:19 pm
I agree that a line should be drawn on this matter
There is the question as to what a player should do if an opponent appears to be behaving suspiciously. GMs and IMs, you might assume, despite some evidence to the contrary, act with integrity. Where younger players make frequent absences from the board, particularly with support teams present in the venue, you can wonder.

The British Championship Congress had a dilution of what the FIDE laws of chess permit. At the extreme, there could have been a security scan at the entrance to the Riviera Centre and all devices expected to be handed over for safe keeping during the game. That might even have included watches and pens.

Part of the "you should resign" issue could have been that Charlie may not have realised that a phone forfeit would still count towards his potential norm. There's a precedent for that. Back in 2008, Nigel playing against Ketevan in Liverpool, placed a mobile on the table and thought he had switched it off. It appears it was only in standby and switched itself back on to warn that it was short of charge. That default win contributed to Ketevan's norm.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:49 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:39 pm
Part of the "you should resign" issue could have been that Charlie may not have realised that a phone forfeit would still count towards his potential norm. There's a precedent for that. Back in 2008, Nigel playing against Ketevan in Liverpool, placed a mobile on the table and thought he had switched it off. It appears it was only in standby and switched itself back on to warn that it was short of charge. That default win contributed to Ketevan's norm.
Well, it would have done, had Ketevan won her last-round game against Peter Wells. She actually only drew it and finished half a point short of the norm target.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:58 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:39 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:19 pm
I agree that a line should be drawn on this matter
There is the question as to what a player should do if an opponent appears to be behaving suspiciously. GMs and IMs, you might assume, despite some evidence to the contrary, act with integrity. Where younger players make frequent absences from the board, particularly with support teams present in the venue, you can wonder.

The British Championship Congress had a dilution of what the FIDE laws of chess permit. At the extreme, there could have been a security scan at the entrance to the Riviera Centre and all devices expected to be handed over for safe keeping during the game. That might even have included watches and pens.

Part of the "you should resign" issue could have been that Charlie may not have realised that a phone forfeit would still count towards his potential norm. There's a precedent for that. Back in 2008, Nigel playing against Ketevan in Liverpool, placed a mobile on the table and thought he had switched it off. It appears it was only in standby and switched itself back on to warn that it was short of charge. That default win contributed to Ketevan's norm.
Why single out younger players? Yes, there have been a few recent incidents involving juniors but there have been as many involving adults.

Regarding the incident in question what I don't understand is why anybody at a chess tournament would need their phone with them. I always leave mine at the accommodation and that way I don't have to worry about it going off in the playing venue at all. It surprises me that participants in the championship would take the risk as they have much more to lose than I have by a phone default. If I did have to bring my phone for whatever reason I'd like to think I would be organised enough not leave it in the same bag I would take with me in order to buy a drink during the game.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:04 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:58 pm
Why single out younger players?
Because they have parents etc sitting outside the playing area openly using computers or phones.

The full story of last year's Telford disqualification has yet to be revealed. Whispers suggest that it involved a "smart" watch and complicit parents.

NickFaulks
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:11 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:58 pm
Why single out younger players?
I think it is mostly younger players who are in the habit of leaving the tournament hall after every move to socialise with friends and family. But not exclusively, and in all cases it would be much better if they just didn't do it.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: British Championship Congress 2019

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:19 am

In which case parents and spectators need to be kept in a designated areas as much as possible or prevented from using electronic devices outside of that area (at Torquay spectators were warned about the use of phones). At Torquay I felt provisions for this were excellent; there were separate toilets for players and a fast lane for players to buy refreshments without entering the analysis area. This isn't the case in every venue but then again these venues were hardly built specifically for chess events and sometimes the logistics don't make this possible.

Roger's demonisation of young players is simply ridiculous; a junior could possibly be Igors Rausis' grandchild.
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