Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
John McKenna
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by John McKenna » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:30 pm

I don't want to jump the gun nor be left in the starting blocks, but if neither player is at the board when "... and start White's start clock" has been announced when will any such game be deemed to officially start?

A hypothetical - could someone walk straight into a technically caught in possession charge as they have a dog & mobile bone in their bag as they approach said board for the first time but after the game has officially started?
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

E Michael White
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by E Michael White » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:36 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:05 pm
I know it's a typo.....
It was not a typo; I was trying a pun and according to written pun convention used the spelling for the less common usage. In view of your closing comment it fits rather well. I was also alluding to a 1970s pop song.
Last edited by E Michael White on Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:58 pm

"It was not a typo"

Ah, I didn't expect one from you - I can usually trust your precision and accuracy. I've only just got the pop song, and will now go and look up who sang it!

Now done - can't mention him...

John McKenna
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by John McKenna » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:27 pm

Too early for the punk rendition of "Britannia Waives the Rules ".
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:38 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:30 pm
but if neither player is at the board when "... and start White's start clock" has been announced when will any such game be deemed to officially start?
In my experience the usual practice is that one of the arbiters will start the clocks where neither player is present as soon after the nominal start as they can manage.

Any arbiter trying to default a player for mobile phone possession before they had even reached the board would likely be condemned as over zealous. That's not to say some arbiters don't have form for that type of approach. Those arbiters defaulting players at the 2008 Olympiad for not being sat at the board the precise moment play was deemed to start being a case in point.

John McKenna
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by John McKenna » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm

Thanks, Roger.

All tremble with trepidation at the mere thought of the arrival of Phonefinder General...
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Richard Bates
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by Richard Bates » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:31 am

John McKenna wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm
Thanks, Roger.

All tremble with trepidation at the mere thought of the arrival of Phonefinder General...
Well there is this current practice of random “metal detector” scans being done of players at British tournaments before the game has started. I presume the point is purely symbolic, because if anything is found it will not constitute an offence anyway. Although i’ve never had one, so maybe before conducting the scan the arbiter first asks “anything to declare”?

At least if everyone was scanned on entry (as per big FIDE/ECU events* it would alert players to anything they may have inadvertently brought to the board, and largely avoid debates about whether offences have been committed accidentally.

*in these events it is done to prevent electronic devices making it into the venue at all, but this wouldn’t have to be the case. One is a primarily anti-cheating measure, the latter more of a player protection one.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:48 am

Richard Bates wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:31 am
I presume the point is purely symbolic, because if anything is found it will not constitute an offence anyway.
If the phone was concealed as supposedly done by Rausis and the Dutch lad, that might indicate intent. If a concealed phone was found and hadn't been "declared" in previous rounds, that also is suspicious.

Do the arbiters consider they have the power to intercept or randomly intercept players for inspection on their way back to the board during the game? They stopped Lorin after Charlie asked. Did that involve the metal detector? I suspect not, as the phone was in reasonably plain view.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:13 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:48 am
Richard Bates wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:31 am
I presume the point is purely symbolic, because if anything is found it will not constitute an offence anyway.
If the phone was concealed as supposedly done by Rausis and the Dutch lad, that might indicate intent.
It might, but as Richard correctly points out, there is no offence of "going equipped to" cheat before the game has begun in the rules.

Reg Clucas
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by Reg Clucas » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

A pity this seems to be turning into another mobile phone thread. Anyway, I would just like to say that I too enjoyed the live commentary.

Brendan O'Gorman
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by Brendan O'Gorman » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:58 pm

GOOD: Air con, space, lighting in the Forum, arbiters, online pairings, commentary, water coolers in playing area, decent cafe, large book stall, weather, Old Vienna restaurant.
BAD: absence of a section where adult players graded 120-139 would have had a reasonable chance of winning (the u1750 section was effectively an u160 event)

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JustinHorton
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:22 pm

On what could be done better, did anybody else find the event website less than user-friendly?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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John Reyes
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Re: Good/Bad things from the British 2019

Post by John Reyes » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:55 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:25 pm
E Michael White wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:40 pm
A game has started after White has made the first move. The FIDE regulations state that for a game to count for rating each player must have made at least one move.

This is covered by FIDE Rating Regulations (not the FIDE game Laws). So stereotypical English arbiters need not jump up and down waiving the Laws and its preface in the air.

As far as English players are concerned there are numerous points of issue particularly if a phone sounds before Black has made his first move eg:-

(...)
I refer the honorable gentleman to Delchev-Conquest in the European Team Championship all those years ago, where precisely this scenario happened, and the game was rated.

But in theory could it be done?
Any postings on here represent my personal views only

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