British Championship Congress 2020

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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Michael Farthing
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020 - Sections

Post by Michael Farthing » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:42 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:05 pm
Ursula Wielgosz wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:00 am
4. Is anyone else concerned about the message this might be giving to Juniors who are just starting out and their parents?
One of the complaints that is often received from players who are not juniors, which if we are being honest is players aged 40+, is that they don't want to play in events filled with juniors. This is because they are undergraded, or they don't sit still, or something. They remain most clear that juniors are welcome, they are very happy for juniors to have their own tournament. So long as they're not in their own tournament.

Am I concerned about it? Hard to say. I've seen this attitude for a decade or so, so I've just got used to it. Does it implicitly send the wrong message? Absolutely.
Out of principle I do not play in any tournament that discriminates on the grounds of sex or age (and there are others -isms that I would include, but these are the only two that seem to happen much, and I'm often excluded anyway as I'm the victim of the discrimination). Quite apart from the discrimination is the way our chess world is in danger of becoming divided into disparate groups that do not meet and do not talk - and so pointlessly - our game is one which can be played largely free of the physical constraints and advantages that particular groups might genuinely have in other sports: we do not need discrimination. The worst discrimination, of course, is the way the past-their-best oldies segregate themselves off, no doubt muttering "not like it was in my day". It's one reason I don't like ny DoB being paraded about - I might get associated with them.

John McKenna
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020

Post by John McKenna » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:46 pm

You must have led either a charmed or sheltered life, Michael.

When I was 13 years nobody taught me anything about chess I had to teach myself.

There was a kind of chess club at school with a room provided with some sets for use at lunchtime but no teachers even attended, let alone taught chess. (The teachers, by the way, could take a free slap, or more, anytime they felt it to be justified, in addition to the more formal forms of punishment. Now it is teachers who go in fear of violence - how times have changed.)

There was also the local chess club but no tuition there either. Juniors were just cannon fodder for the experienced adults to get a bit of practise against when no matches were on..

Now those who experienced such conditions in their youth are faced with large numbers of juniors who are being trained by strong to master level players on a regular basis - because there's money in it somewhere - and carted about by doting parents - because there's mileage somewhere in it. And therefore, the average veteran is today just cannon fodder for improving juniors.

Turning the world the right way up for some can also involve turning it upside down for others.

Is all still right and proper in your world, Michael, or has it been turned upside down by Brexit?

If so, then welcome to the turning world.

If not, carry on cruising...
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Brian Towers
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020 - Sections

Post by Brian Towers » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:52 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:42 am
It's one reason I don't like ny DoB being paraded about - I might get associated with them.
Presumably you keep a very ugly picture in your attic to foil attempts at guessing.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

NickFaulks
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020 - Sections

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:32 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:42 am
It's one reason I don't like ny DoB being paraded about - I might get associated with them.
1952, according to published information. Like it or not, you're associated with me.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020 - Sections

Post by Michael Farthing » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:44 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:52 pm
Michael Farthing wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:42 am
It's one reason I don't like ny DoB being paraded about - I might get associated with them.
Presumably you keep a very ugly picture in your attic to foil attempts at guessing.
Yeah, I'm rather hoping that one day it will win me an Oscar.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020 - Sections

Post by Michael Farthing » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:53 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:32 pm
Michael Farthing wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:42 am
It's one reason I don't like ny DoB being paraded about - I might get associated with them.
1952, according to published information. Like it or not, you're associated with me.
Gosh! Are you that young, Nick?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:56 am

In the qualification regulations we read
(b) Other FIDE Rated Open Congresses (completed 1st July 2019 – 30th June 2020) with a field of 25 players or over
Any player who achieves a TPR of 2300 or higher achieved over a minimum of 4 games.
There appear to be a number of players who would qualify by virtue of their performances in the recent 4NCL Congress at South Normanton.

http://chess-results.com/tnr476702.aspx ... =5&flag=30

So what is a process of establishing qualifiers? Does the ECF monitor it, expect players to make a claim or require the chief arbiter or organiser to claim the places?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:06 pm

I am monitoring it as best I can. So far, from events I know about, we have:

South Wales International: Mike Waddington
4NCL South Normanton: John Merriman, Martin Burrows, Henrik Stepanyan, Max Turner,
(Additionally from that event: Rajat Makkar, whose TPR goes above 2300 if we drop his round 1 win.)

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:15 pm

I'm also keeping track of qualifiers by route E, which gets calculated before route F for events where it matters. The ones I know of so far are:

South Wales International: Jonathan Blackburn, Alex Bullen, Grzegorz Toczek
Paignton: Justin Horton

Paul Cooksey
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020

Post by Paul Cooksey » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:50 pm

er, right, this is going to make me look bad. But on the basis better me now than someone else later - are we sure Paignton qualified under regulation E this year?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:07 pm

Rule E could arguably be clearer; the intention of it, and the way I'm interpreting the rules, is that provided the tournament's number of rounds, time controls, arbiting team and so on are appropriate for a norm event, the event is a qualifier.

Eric Gardiner
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020

Post by Eric Gardiner » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:05 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:56 am
In the qualification regulations we read
(b) Other FIDE Rated Open Congresses (completed 1st July 2019 – 30th June 2020) with a field of 25 players or over
Any player who achieves a TPR of 2300 or higher achieved over a minimum of 4 games.
There appear to be a number of players who would qualify by virtue of their performances in the recent 4NCL Congress at South Normanton.

http://chess-results.com/tnr476702.aspx ... =5&flag=30

So what is a process of establishing qualifiers? Does the ECF monitor it, expect players to make a claim or require the chief arbiter or organiser to claim the places?
Also, does anyone know the correct way to calculate your TPR? I don't know what the formula is but according to the Chess Results server my TPR at South Normanton was 2260 but according to the calculator here:

https://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-cont ... rPage.html

it comes out as 2316. Perhaps the latter which I found from Google rather than directly from the ECF website is out of date ?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:45 pm

The official version is as described in the FIDE Handbook at 1.49 in the Titles regulations.


The method of converting a percentage score into a performance rating is described as
Calculation of a Performance Rating (Rp):
Rp = Ra + dp (see the table below)
Ra = Average rating of opponents + rating difference „dp“ from table 8.1a of FIDE Rating Regulations B.02
The table though has been mangled in that some of the spaces have been removed making the table non-trivial to decipher. It's just as mangled when it appears in the rating regulations.

This should make it more readable

Code: Select all

p	dp
1.00	800
0.99	677
0.98	589
0.97	538
0.96	501
0.95	470
0.94	444
0.93	422
0.92	401
0.91	383
0.90	366
0.89	351
0.88	336
0.87	322
0.86	309
0.85	296
0.84	284
0.83	273
0.82	262
0.81	251
0.80	240
0.79	230
0.78	220
0.77	211
0.76	202
0.75	193
0.74	184
0.73	175
0.72	166
0.71	158
0.70	149
0.69	141
0.68	133
0.67	125
0.66	117
0.65	110
0.64	102
0.63	95
0.62	87
0.61	80
0.60	72
0.59	65
0.58	57
0.57	50
0.56	43
0.55	36
0.54	29
0.53	21
0.52	14
0.51	7
0.50	0
0.49	-7
0.48	-14
0.47	-21
0.46	-29
0.45	-36
0.44	-43
0.43	-50
0.42	-57
0.41	-65
0.40	-72
0.39	-80
0.38	-87
0.37	-95
0.36	-102
0.35	-110
0.34	-117
0.33	-125
0.32	  -133
0.31	  -141
0.30	  -149
0.29	  -158
0.28	  -166
0.27	  -175
0.26	  -184
0.25	  -193
0.24	  -202
0.23	  -211
0.22	  -220
0.21	  -230
0.20	  -240
0.19	  -251
0.18	  -262
0.17	  -273
0.16	  -284
0.15	-296
0.14	-309
0.13	-322
0.12	-336
0.11	-351
0.10	-366
0.09	-383
0.08	-401
0.07	-422
0.06	-444
0.05	-470
0.04	-501
0.03	-538
0.02	-589
0.01	-677
0.00	-800
My score at South Normanton was 2/5, therefore I should subtract 72 from the average of my opponents' ratings.

These were 2327 + 1636 + 2089 + 2361 + 2052 which sums to 10465 and thus an average of 2093. Subtracting 72 drops it to 2021 which is the value according to chess-results.

Eric Gardiner
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020

Post by Eric Gardiner » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:15 am

Thank you Roger. I did spend a few minutes unsuccessfully trying to find the relevant information in the FIDE handbook before posting my query. Applying the formula you've given to my results gives the same value as on Chess Results so I will trust the calculations there for future tournaments.

NickFaulks
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Re: British Championship Congress 2020

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:27 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:45 pm
The table though has been mangled in that some of the spaces have been removed making the table non-trivial to decipher. It's just as mangled when it appears in the rating regulations.
The tables are obviously a mess on the new site, which is a complete shambles. I shall continue to use the old site for everything I can until it is removed.

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