Women's Recruitment Officer

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
TimWall
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:23 pm

Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by TimWall » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:00 am

I am very happy to announce that today I have been appointed as the English Chess Federation’s Women’s Recruitment Officer by the Director of Women’s Chess, Chris Fegan.
In this role I will be working closely together with Chris and Helen Frostick, the Manager of Female Social Media, to help the Federation achieve its goal of substantially increasing the number of female ECF members, and to ensure that the ECF reaches out to involve many more women and girls in competitive and social chess at all levels.

Angus French
Posts: 1616
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am
Contact:

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by Angus French » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:22 am

Tim, congratulations on your appointment.

Dare I ask, will you also be working with Carl Portman, the new Development Officer, to help the federation achieve its goal of increasing female membership to 15% of the total?

Edit: When I posted I also considered making the point that another male has been appointed to a position with responsibility for women's chess. I didn't for fear of appearing too critical but, on reflection, I should have. I think it's important... Sorry, Tim. I didn't mean to cut across your announcement. Perhaps Chris Fegan or another Board member will respond?

Andrew Martin
Posts: 752
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:37 pm

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by Andrew Martin » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:27 pm

Congrats Tim!

Can I invite you, Chris and Helen to the Nat Schools girls' semi final at St Catherine's School in Bramley on January 12th to talk about the ECF plans for increasing female participation and involvement.

Last year approx. 270 girls attended, plus tens of parents, teachers and influential junior organisers. We cant guarantee anything, but it is significant that numbers have increased year on year for the last 6 years. There should be over 200 players at the very least.

This has to be a good platform from which to obtain and put forward ideas and to boost numbers and interest.

download/file.php?id=1474

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by Chris Goodall » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:28 pm

TimWall wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:00 am
to ensure that the ECF reaches out to involve many more women and girls in competitive and social chess at all levels.
There you go again. Where do you think these organisers and captains are, who are waking up in the morning and deciding to exclude women from all levels of chess? I have never known a single person involved in chess who wouldn't have been delighted if more women had shown an interest. You really do have an abysmal opinion of every organiser who isn't you.

The worst thing you can do is make women's participation part of some Soviet five-year plan. When I played for Uni a few years ago, we tried to get Victoria for every match. Because the ECF had told us to involve some women? Because it created a better social environment for the men to enjoy? No: because she wiped the floor with Division 2.

But here's the thing - in Singapore, she was a chess player. At the Uni, she was a chess player. To the 4NCL and the ECF, she was a Girl Chess Player. They absolutely wet themselves at how well she could play chess for a girl. And then, coincidentally, she lost interest.

Instead of "reaching out" and "involving" women, why not see them as independent thinkers with agency, who will reach out to us and involve themselves once the chess world is sufficiently interesting for them to care about?

Of course, a country that was serious about making the world of chess interesting to women would, at the absolute minimum, make funding for international women's teams equal to the funding for the men. Preferably, boost the women to where the men are now, and completely defund the men. That would be a fantastic headline in the Guardian! But it would mean taking Malcolm's toys away, and that's too difficult.
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

TimWall
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by TimWall » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:44 am

Andrew Martin wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:27 pm
Congrats Tim!

Can I invite you, Chris and Helen to the Nat Schools girls' semi final at St Catherine's School in Bramley on January 12th to talk about the ECF plans for increasing female participation and involvement.

Last year approx. 270 girls attended, plus tens of parents, teachers and influential junior organisers. We cant guarantee anything, but it is significant that numbers have increased year on year for the last 6 years. There should be over 200 players at the very least.

This has to be a good platform from which to obtain and put forward ideas and to boost numbers and interest.

download/file.php?id=1474
Thanks for the invite, Andrew! There are 2 semi-finals of course, one in Bromley, Kent, and one in Manchester, on January 12. It clashes with the 4NCL but I think we can ensure that both events are covered with a 'Join the ECF' stall and announcements.

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 730
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by Roger Lancaster » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:47 pm

Angus French wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:22 am
Tim, congratulations on your appointment.

Dare I ask, will you also be working with Carl Portman, the new Development Officer, to help the federation achieve its goal of increasing female membership to 15% of the total?

Edit: When I posted I also considered making the point that another male has been appointed to a position with responsibility for women's chess. I didn't for fear of appearing too critical but, on reflection, I should have. I think it's important... Sorry, Tim. I didn't mean to cut across your announcement. Perhaps Chris Fegan or another Board member will respond?
In common with many others, I am very aware that Tim has strong views on how recent ECF appointments have been made. Whilst congratulating Tim on his appointment, I can't trace that this particular post was heavily advertised, if indeed it was advertised at all. Of course, it's entirely possible that a formal process was employed and Tim emerged streets ahead of a bevy of female candidates [and, indeed, I've no reason to doubt his capability] but this isn't self-evident. If Chris isn't willing to respond to Angus's invitation, perhaps Tim would?

TimWall
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by TimWall » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:40 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:47 pm
Angus French wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:22 am
Tim, congratulations on your appointment.

Dare I ask, will you also be working with Carl Portman, the new Development Officer, to help the federation achieve its goal of increasing female membership to 15% of the total?

Edit: When I posted I also considered making the point that another male has been appointed to a position with responsibility for women's chess. I didn't for fear of appearing too critical but, on reflection, I should have. I think it's important... Sorry, Tim. I didn't mean to cut across your announcement. Perhaps Chris Fegan or another Board member will respond?
In common with many others, I am very aware that Tim has strong views on how recent ECF appointments have been made. Whilst congratulating Tim on his appointment, I can't trace that this particular post was heavily advertised, if indeed it was advertised at all. Of course, it's entirely possible that a formal process was employed and Tim emerged streets ahead of a bevy of female candidates [and, indeed, I've no reason to doubt his capability] but this isn't self-evident. If Chris isn't willing to respond to Angus's invitation, perhaps Tim would?
Hi Roger, and hi Angus.
I am very happy to answer these quite obvious and important points: Was the Women's Recruitment Officer advertised, and why not appoint a woman to the role? And am I happy to work with Carl Portman?
First, the WRO appointment:
It's what's called (in ECF office parlance, I'm told) a Level 4 appointment. Pretty low level (mostly involving emailing people and encouraging chess organisations to do outreach to recruit more female ECF members), completely voluntary and solely within the remit of the Director - in this case, Chris Fegan.
Chris saw that I was currently "at a loose end" ECF-wise, and saw an opportunity to rope me in to do some work. Getting more female ECF members is a top priority for his directorate, and also for English chess as a whole, so I was very keen to do it and said yes.
Should it be done by a female chess organiser? I would say ideally, yes. Would I be happy for a female chess player/organiser to take over the role at any point in the future? Again, absolutely yes.
One of the key things I have been talking about is for chess organisers to train up or simply find their replacement. This will be one of my top priorities! The more people we have as active organisers, and the more women we have as active organisers, the better.
I don't see any direct conflict with Carl; he has gone on record as saying that there is rather a lot to do with the Development Officer job. I would certainly be fine cooperating with him on various projects if he wished to.
None of this changes the fact that I have launched a formal complaint about the Development Officer appointment. I am sticking to my guns that the process was not fair or transparent, and that the whole hiring period was way too long.
However, that doesn't mean I have anything against Carl personally, I admire the work he has done with chess in prisons and for charity. My complaint is mainly about how people such as Carl and myself seem to have been treated as 'pawns in the game', and normal rules and fair hiring practices seem to have gone out of the window.
I hope you will forgive me, but I am not going to get into an extended back-and-forth about these issues here. I have paid my £50 deposit to lodge my complaint, and now we will have to see it take its course.
In the meantime, I have lots of work to do in preparing for the London Chess Classic, the 'Chess and Female Empowerment' Conference - and of course my chess teaching and local chess organising in the North East.
By all means, engage in a spirited debate on these pages. But let's keep it civilised and try to respect each other. The chess world (in the UK at least) is currently a small one and we all have to try to follow the rules and get along somehow with each other! :)
I don't like using the FIDE mantra 'Gens Una Sumus' - it seems so facile.
Instead, I prefer to be more realistic, and acknowledge there will be tears and strong emotions before bedtime. To quote rather Lev Tolstoy from Anna Karenina: "All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 730
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by Roger Lancaster » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:17 pm

Yes, I think that's a fair answer to the WRO recruitment question and I'm obliged to Tim for the timely response. I have absolutely no idea how well, or otherwise, he and Carl will relate to one another and so don't propose to comment on that part of Tim's post. Instead, I'll just wish them both well in their new roles.

AndrewBanks
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 7:01 pm

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by AndrewBanks » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:45 pm

While I must congratulate Tim on his appointment, surely it is a sad state of affairs that ECF was not able to appoint a woman to the role of Women's Recruitment Officer?

User avatar
Chris Goodall
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by Chris Goodall » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:16 pm

AndrewBanks wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:45 pm
While I must congratulate Tim on his appointment, surely it is a sad state of affairs that ECF was not able to appoint a woman to the role of Women's Recruitment Officer?
Why? Is there a smaller, pinker and more expensive Women's ECF that only women are allowed to grant membership of? Do we have to create little powerless jobs for women to keep them happy because we can't trust them with the important ones?
Chris Goodall, formerly known as Chris Wardle. Northumbria League hand-cranker; ECF Grader for Bernicia and the NCCU.
Newcastle is not in Scotland!

A.Kluckova
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:56 am

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by A.Kluckova » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:39 am

Both semifinals are not in the same day, Southern is the 12th and Northern is the 11th.
It clashes with the 4ncl ?
IM A. Martin will be there in Southern semifinal with more than 200 school girls, most of them new in chess. The biggest UK female chess event ( I attended it with girls in 2013 and 2014).
And Women's Recruitment Officer ( never played chess so strong as like as IM A.Martin) needs to play lower board in 4ncl and wants to cover both events with stall (?!)
Are you sure we need a Women's Recruitment Officer in that case? Is not much effective cover this position also with stall ?

A.Kluckova
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:56 am

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by A.Kluckova » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:13 am

When IM Martin writes the Northern Semifinal is in Bramley, it means is in Bramley, no in Bromley.
Bramley in Surrey.
As you can see, who is not only willing to come, but not even read

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2140
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:59 am

A.Kluckova wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:13 am
When IM Martin writes the Northern Semifinal is in Bramley, it means is in Bramley, no in Bromley.
Bramley in Surrey.
There are at least 5 Bramley's in England - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bramley - so I'd have thought it would be much more likely to be at one of the Northern towns of this name.

NickFaulks
Posts: 5137
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:07 am

Except it isn't the Northern semifinal, it's the Southern. All very confusing.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 18148
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Women's Recruitment Officer

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:07 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:59 am
so I'd have thought it would be much more likely to be at one of the Northern towns of this name.
I thought the Southern final was here.
http://www.stcatherines.info/
http://www.stcatherines.info/ecf-nation ... ionships-1

That's Bramley near Guildford, not to be confused with another southern Bramley, between Reading and Basingstoke. But it's certainly not Bromley in Kent.

Post Reply