ECF Finance Meeting

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Chris Fegan
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:31 am

Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by Chris Fegan » Sat May 09, 2020 12:40 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:34 pm
But I very much dislike being dragged into the secretive approach the board takes to running the ECF.
I don't think is particularly fair nor correct and certainly not my intention as an individual Board member.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat May 09, 2020 12:45 pm

Chris Fegan wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:40 pm
I don't think is particularly fair nor correct and certainly not my intention as an individual Board member.
Physical ECF Council meetings aren't confidential. Why should virtual ones be so?

Chris Fegan
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:31 am

Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by Chris Fegan » Sat May 09, 2020 12:55 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:45 pm
[
Physical ECF Council meetings aren't confidential. Why should virtual ones be so?
I was not aware that they were

J T Melsom
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Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by J T Melsom » Sat May 09, 2020 1:03 pm

I've not joined, although I am entitled to, basically to have a break from chess debate. I understand the reasons why the group was set up, but do have some concerns about this initiative in terms of what it means for wider engagement. Its not a Council meeting so how it operates is entirely down to the administrators. Think of it as a rather large WhatsApp group.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat May 09, 2020 1:03 pm

Chris Fegan wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:55 pm
I was not aware that they were
If you don't have a login to the ECF Council board, you can see no more than that there are 47 posts in 13 topics with 114 members of whom the newest is Pete Kobryn.

Otherwise
This is a private forum only accessible to Members of the English Chess Federation Council and Invited Guests. You must log in to read and participate in the forum.

Chris Fegan
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:31 am

Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by Chris Fegan » Sat May 09, 2020 1:08 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:03 pm
Chris Fegan wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:55 pm
I was not aware that they were
If you don't have a login to the ECF Council board, you can see no more than that there are 47 posts in 13 topics with 114 members of whom the newest is Pete Kobryn.

Otherwise
This is a private forum only accessible to Members of the English Chess Federation Council and Invited Guests. You must log in to read and participate in the forum.
You are referring to what is a voluntary Forum and not a Council meeting and as far as I am aware has nothing to do with the ECF Board.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by Adam Raoof » Sat May 09, 2020 1:09 pm

can I join the group?
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Angus French
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Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by Angus French » Sat May 09, 2020 1:37 pm

Chris Fegan wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:40 pm
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:34 pm
But I very much dislike being dragged into the secretive approach the board takes to running the ECF.
I don't think is particularly fair nor correct and certainly not my intention as an individual Board member.
I joined the forum for Council members in the hope it would:
- encourage discussion between Council members prior to Council meetings; and
- lead to better communication between the Board and Council.

I did express some concerns on joining and I share Paul's concern about secrecy.

So far very little has been discussed and it seems that most Council members either haven't joined or haven't logged on since joining. The Board did ask for feedback on a proposed course of action though in my view it didn't provide much in the way of supporting information.

For what it's worth, I suspect the ECF has a serious issue with its finances. Board meeting minutes for 24 January 2020 provide an estimate for reserves falling to £11,800 by the end of the 2019/20 financial year. Presumably this was predicated on membership targets being met and was in any case prior to the virus hit.

Angus French
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Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by Angus French » Sat May 09, 2020 1:40 pm

Chris Fegan wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:08 pm
You are referring to what is a voluntary Forum and not a Council meeting and as far as I am aware has nothing to do with the ECF Board.
I was rather hoping Board members would participate.

J T Melsom
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by J T Melsom » Sat May 09, 2020 2:08 pm

'I was rather hoping Board members would participate'

Given the way some Council members treat some Board members I can understand the hope but also the reluctance to engage any more than necessary. There is after all a pre-existing model of accountability, other un-official forms of dialogue might become a chore.

Paul Cooksey
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Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat May 09, 2020 2:38 pm

Chris Fegan wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:40 pm
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:34 pm
But I very much dislike being dragged into the secretive approach the board takes to running the ECF.
I don't think is particularly fair nor correct and certainly not my intention as an individual Board member.
The word secretive badly used. The phrase I had in mind was in camera, but it felt pompous. What I dislike is the exclusion of people, rather than the hiding of secrets.

For example:
I have been asked to post this extract from a briefing paper written by Stephen Woodhouse, Non Executive Director, for consideration by the Board.
I felt being party to the information in that thread meant I could not comment on a similar thread here.

Nick Grey
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Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by Nick Grey » Sat May 09, 2020 4:59 pm

I would like to know the ECF position before we have our AGMs in June and July.

J T Melsom
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Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by J T Melsom » Sat May 09, 2020 5:51 pm

I agree with Paul Cooksey's concern about people being excluded from the debate, but this was true prior to the establishment of the new group as well. Michael Farthing has clearly established the group in the hope that it might encourage debate amongst the formal (my word) representatives, that might conceivably assist management of the debate at Council. And the added responsibility of the participants might ensure a better debate than other places where debate goes beyond ECF members, and some posters are just disruptive. Of course it doesn't replace proper conduct of business at Council, but there is no real reason why some informal airing of Board thoughts should not be rehearsed in that place if it is deemed sensible. It would seem tome a step in the right direction.

John McKenna
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Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by John McKenna » Sat May 09, 2020 6:21 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 4:59 pm
I would like to know the ECF position before we have our AGMs in June and July.
You'll be lucky, Nick.

The ECF is conducting its usual game - a blindfold simul in which it, the master, can see the position but we the multitude of ordinary members cannot be allowed more than the occasional glimpse from afar. In the current fog of war against the virus it is even more necessary to keep the position enclosed.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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Michael Farthing
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Re: ECF Finance Meeting

Post by Michael Farthing » Sat May 09, 2020 8:03 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:09 pm
can I join the group?
You're already a member Adam, as are all Council members. You should also have received an email telling you to log on for the first time. If not, let me know and I'll send you a copy.

Like Council meetings themselves, it is not public, but that does not mean members cannot share things they read there. As regards the secrecy issue I did hesitate about this. I decided in the end that it was more important at first to have confidence from Council members that it would not have the adverse publicity that has affected other forums. It may be that at some point it will be made visible to the public but that will certainly only happen with the ready support of the forum membership.

It was never expected that the forum would be high volume, but rather that it would be a means of discussion when particular issues come up. We shall see whether it develops into a worthwhile tool - if not it will close.

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